Does it matter that little Tony is black?

Use this forum to discuss the July 2018 Book of the Month "Toni the Superhero" by R.D. Base
Post Reply
User avatar
Libs_Books
Posts: 755
Joined: 13 Feb 2018, 12:54
Favorite Book: The year of the flood
Currently Reading: Mason Dixon
Bookshelf Size: 273
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-libs-books.html
Latest Review: Dont Panic Its Organic by Dr. Andy Lopez

Re: Does it matter that little Tony is black?

Post by Libs_Books »

bookowlie wrote: 01 Jul 2018, 08:16 I didn't view it as black kids can only do ordinary things while the superpowers belong to the white kids. For me, the story showed that important people (superheroes) still do ordinary activities and chores like everyone else.
I agree - and perhaps also that what's really heroic is doing actually helpful things.
User avatar
Mary Garrison
Posts: 447
Joined: 30 Aug 2017, 10:38
Currently Reading: The Hiding Place
Bookshelf Size: 78
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-mary-garrison.html
Latest Review: Doctoroo & the Case of the Hacking Hippo by Dr. Rachel B. Wellner

Post by Mary Garrison »

The book is actually talking about the ordinary things he likes to do while he’s not saving the world. I don’t think the author meant anything by it, I think she was just trying to make it diverse. If you notice when they are playing there are all different races.
User avatar
Elizabeth Pass
Posts: 1014
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 08:14
Favorite Book: Dealing with Dragons (Enchanted Forest Chronicles, #1)
Currently Reading: Reign
Bookshelf Size: 126
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-bb587.html
Latest Review: COVIDinners by Katie M Zeigler

Post by Elizabeth Pass »

Bianka Walter wrote: 01 Jul 2018, 10:30 The fact that Toni is black didn't even register on my radar until this thread. So I obviously felt none of the above.
And I don't think it will for kids either. They just see another kid, it's us adults that notice the colour :)
I feel the same way. When I saw this topic thread I tried to imagine the book with a different race or gender. It made absolutely no difference.
User avatar
kfwilson6
Previous Member of the Month
Posts: 2065
Joined: 14 Feb 2018, 15:30
Currently Reading: Lord of Chaos
Bookshelf Size: 298
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-kfwilson6.html
Latest Review: The Stone Wall Crossing by Alice Schellhorn Magrane
Reading Device: B00JG8GOWU

Post by kfwilson6 »

Libs_Books wrote: 02 Jul 2018, 00:49
bookowlie wrote: 01 Jul 2018, 08:16 I didn't view it as black kids can only do ordinary things while the superpowers belong to the white kids. For me, the story showed that important people (superheroes) still do ordinary activities and chores like everyone else.
I agree - and perhaps also that what's really heroic is doing actually helpful things.
Your comments are always so insightful. I hope kids will get that message out of this book.
User avatar
kfwilson6
Previous Member of the Month
Posts: 2065
Joined: 14 Feb 2018, 15:30
Currently Reading: Lord of Chaos
Bookshelf Size: 298
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-kfwilson6.html
Latest Review: The Stone Wall Crossing by Alice Schellhorn Magrane
Reading Device: B00JG8GOWU

Post by kfwilson6 »

bb587 wrote: 02 Jul 2018, 07:45
Bianka Walter wrote: 01 Jul 2018, 10:30 The fact that Toni is black didn't even register on my radar until this thread. So I obviously felt none of the above.
And I don't think it will for kids either. They just see another kid, it's us adults that notice the colour :)
I feel the same way. When I saw this topic thread I tried to imagine the book with a different race or gender. It made absolutely no difference.
I agree. There was nothing about his home, his family, his activities that had anything to distinguish him from children of other races. To me it's "kids are just kids."
User avatar
heliz_t
Posts: 58
Joined: 28 Dec 2017, 13:35
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 178
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-heliz-t.html
Latest Review: Serendipity Mystery: Diary of a Snoopy Cat by R.F. Kristi

Post by heliz_t »

A very interesting question. My initial response was yes, it matters to black kids who are learning to read to see themselves represented in the books they are exposed to. The more diversity and inclusion are normalized, the more they will become reality. But you make an interesting point about him NOT doing the things that other (white?) superheros do, and your question made me think. I don't know, everything is open to interpretation, and if the Toni character is perceived as presenting the subtext you describe, that's going to be problematic. That said, Toni is introduced as a superhero, and dressed as one in all the illustrations though.To be honest, it is a very simple book for beginning readers, and it is intentionally restricted to simple sentences. I don't feel that it's the right book for complex messages about race or anything else. None of the sentences are negative: i.e. about things he can't do, or about external limitations on his abilities, so I would be cautious about reading that kind of negative message into it. My understanding is that it's the first book in a series of books for beginning readers, and simply introduces the character to the readers. I think the idea is that kids get to know and relate to Toni as they find activities in common with him, and start to read simple sentences for themselves. I haven't read later books in the series, but I understood that he would get into superhero style adventures later on. Honestly, it never entered my head that he wouldn't be able to because he's black!
User avatar
Dael Reader
Posts: 684
Joined: 05 May 2018, 08:39
Currently Reading: The Story of Arthur Truluv
Bookshelf Size: 53
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-dael-reader.html
Latest Review: Extraordinary Stories From Everyday People (and me) by Les Clark
Reading Device: 1400697484

Post by Dael Reader »

I think it's nice that Toni is African American, because we need more children's books with non-European American characters. I'm not sure that the immediate interpretation of Toni's "superpowers" would be to assume that he doesn't really have superpowers because he's black. I think the overall moral here is that you don't need "superpowers" to be a superhero. You just have to be there for your family and friends, both at work and play.
User avatar
bobbiebryner
Posts: 30
Joined: 15 Apr 2018, 10:17
Currently Reading: Nightlord: Sunset
Bookshelf Size: 22
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-bobbiebryner.html
Latest Review: Becoming the Dragon by Alex Sapegin

Post by bobbiebryner »

That is an interesting question. When I first read it, I was pleased that Tony was dark-skinned because I was reading the story with the perspective that ordinary things can be heroic. I thought that it showed diversity and promoted positive self-image. Taken from the opposite perspective that superheroes do ordinary things, it does seem that it would be saying that since he is dark-skinned he can only do ordinary things and cannot do things that are heroic. I think that the author's intention was a positive one which encourages children. However, taken out of context, it could be used as a way to discourage some children.

It's sad that we look at children's books this way. If it was a light-skinned child depicted, we would not have questioned the intention and would have assumed it was to encourage children. Although, we would have been upset that a light-skinned child was depicted when there is not enough diversity in children's books. When a dark-skinned child is depicted, we flip the intention so that it seems to be discouraging.

I feel that it is up to us as parents and caregivers to make sure that it is interpreted in a positive light when we are reading it with our children. In the fertile soil of a child's mind, if we plant tolerance and acceptance, we will reap tolerance and acceptance. If we plant hatred and racism, we will reap hatred and racism.
User avatar
daydreaming reader
Posts: 307
Joined: 02 Jan 2016, 19:38
Currently Reading: The Unbound Soul
Bookshelf Size: 43
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-daydreaming-reader.html
Latest Review: We are Voulhire: Someone Else's End by Matthew Tysz

Post by daydreaming reader »

I also wondered if Toni will have superpowers (and super villains) in future books, I did not consider the racial impact. This is mostly because I think that the age group the book is geared towards would not perceive the book like that. However, I am from the Caribbean, and I grew up reading books in primary school with varying shades of brown to black characters.Therefore the color of Toni was not really something that grabbed my attention. I think, however, that the lesson that is learned by the child reading this book, will be shaped by the adults surrounding the child. So, that if the black child asks whether Toni has superpowers, the answer he/she receives from that adult is what will either break or solidify the stereotype of only white children having superpowers.
User avatar
chelhack
Posts: 815
Joined: 16 May 2018, 08:40
Favorite Book: My Trip To Adele
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 381
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-chelhack.html
Latest Review: E-M-P Honeymoon by Dorothy May Mercer
Reading Device: B00I15SB16

Post by chelhack »

I'm bit sure that it so much matters that he is black but it is a nice change to see a superhero of color.
Chelsea N. Hackett
User avatar
Sesame
Posts: 10
Joined: 25 Jun 2018, 14:09
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 16
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-sesame.html
Latest Review: Sigfried’s Smelly Socks! by Len Foley

Post by Sesame »

bookowlie wrote: 01 Jul 2018, 08:16 Christinaro - Interesting question! I didn't view it as black kids can only do ordinary things while the superpowers belong to the white kids. For me, the story showed that important people (superheroes) still do ordinary activities and chores like everyone else.
I agree with you 100%.
User avatar
Cristina Chifane
Previous Member of the Month
Posts: 2061
Joined: 07 Jan 2018, 03:51
Favorite Book: The Magic Mountain
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 898
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-cristina-chifane.html
Latest Review: The Fold by Dennis Lee
Reading Device: B00JG8GOWU

Post by Cristina Chifane »

Pden wrote: 01 Jul 2018, 11:39 It's a good approach to to select a little black kid for a superhero character. Yes it is a good effort to reduce racial intolerances.
I agree with you in this respect and I think the author did a great job whether she did it on purpose or she simply did what she felt was right.
"The madness of writing is the antidote to true madness." (Hanif Kureishi)
Latest Review: The Fold by Dennis Lee
User avatar
Cristina Chifane
Previous Member of the Month
Posts: 2061
Joined: 07 Jan 2018, 03:51
Favorite Book: The Magic Mountain
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 898
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-cristina-chifane.html
Latest Review: The Fold by Dennis Lee
Reading Device: B00JG8GOWU

Post by Cristina Chifane »

MsTri wrote: 01 Jul 2018, 12:16 As a black parent - and now grandparent - it didn't even occur to me that such a comparison could be made. I was focused on the lesson that even superheroes do chores AND enjoy it... In my review, I did mention Tony's color, but I did so as a positive -
I like that the hero in question is a boy of color. In a genre where the superheros have historically been fair-skinned, it's important for little African-American children to see heroes who look like themselves. Since Black Panther is making a splash at the box office, the timing is on-point for our little hero.
We actually have the same idea in this case. What I mean is that I am glad R.D. Base chose to write a book about a little black superhero. The words you wrote in your review are wonderful and they somehow reminded me of Frantz Fanon's book "Black Skins, White Masks". I don't know if you've read it or heard of it, but it's one of the most influential books on international civil rights, anticolonial and black consciousness movements. I'm studying it because it helps me in my research on postcolonial literature. In your review, you sound very "politically correct", that is, you avoid using the word "black" and prefer instead "a boy of color" or "African-American children". Is it something you are doing on purpose or do you feel that the word "black" may still carry some negative connotations and you want to avoid it? In the book I've mentioned Fanon keeps repeating the dichotomy black/white with the ultimate goal of proving its uselessness. I have the book in front of me now; I just feel the need to quote his final words:
"Superiority? Inferiority?
Why not simply try to touch the other, feel the other, discover the other?
Was my freedom not given to me to build the world of you, man?
...
My final prayer:
O my body, always make me a man who questions!"
"The madness of writing is the antidote to true madness." (Hanif Kureishi)
Latest Review: The Fold by Dennis Lee
User avatar
MsTri
Previous Member of the Month
Posts: 1949
Joined: 02 Jul 2017, 12:56
Favorite Author: Miranda Ann Markley
Favorite Book: The Spirit Seeds Book 1
Currently Reading: the Secret of Safe Passage
Bookshelf Size: 1042
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-mstri.html
Latest Review: Suddenly Free, Vol. 1 by Yvette Carmon Davis
Reading Device: B07HZHJGY7
fav_author_id: 225682

Post by MsTri »

@cristinaro, Thanks for the comment and recommendation of that book; I hadn't heard of Black Skins, White Masks.

As for my terminology, my other half has a real aversion to "black", so I've gotten in the habit of using other words due to him, but I have no personal feelings about any of the descriptors, myself.
User avatar
Cristina Chifane
Previous Member of the Month
Posts: 2061
Joined: 07 Jan 2018, 03:51
Favorite Book: The Magic Mountain
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 898
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-cristina-chifane.html
Latest Review: The Fold by Dennis Lee
Reading Device: B00JG8GOWU

Post by Cristina Chifane »

palilogy wrote: 01 Jul 2018, 13:28 It reminded me a bit of that kids book called The Snowy Day.
I remember studying that in a children's literature course.
I think it does matter - but (to me) it doesn't change a thing.
Seeing your answer made me think perhaps I somehow made my question a little elusive. If I had seen the question, I would have probably answered the same as you: "I think it does matter - but (to me) it doesn't change a thing." On the one hand, I also think it matters in the overall historical context and it does matter because it makes a statement whether willingly or not. On the other hand, it does not matter for an adult with no racial prejudice or a young child whose innocence makes him oblivious to any racial distinctions. However, I think there is an ideological message the book carries with or without the author's intention.
"The madness of writing is the antidote to true madness." (Hanif Kureishi)
Latest Review: The Fold by Dennis Lee
Post Reply

Return to “Discuss "Toni the Superhero" by R.D. Base”