I Beg to Differ.

Use this forum to discuss the May 2020 Book of the month, "Grace Revealed: Finding God's Strength in Any Crisis" by Frederick J. Sievert.
Fi Zoraa
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Re: I Beg to Differ.

Post by Fi Zoraa »

I think it means that while we look at ourselves and may see our own failures, scars and wrongdoing, God sees us as what he calls us to be. He sees us as redeemed, for if we come to him through Jesus, we are redeemed. But yes, God does see all those things in us, but maybe it means he doesn't define us by them the way we do ourselves.

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Post by Fi Zoraa »

AlphasFemale wrote:
28 May 2020, 16:40
While I do not directly have an option one way or the other as far as whether God sees people as Jesus or as individuals, I do fee that your question is valid. I think maybe the answer is both..? That he sees his son in people as a whole but sees each person on their own as well.
I agree that it may be both. It says in the bible that God created us in his image. Jesus also died for all of our sins. So in that way, we are all the same, but we're also individuals. We're different in our actions, way of thinking and circumstance. As such, maybe God sees us as individuals in those ways?

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Sushan wrote:
30 May 2020, 22:51
Reubeney wrote:
19 May 2020, 20:17
I think God cares for everyone as an individual and once you accept to believe in Jesus your imperfections and sins are cleansed through faith.
I am confused. How can a belief just wash away your sins? What happens to the impact that it caused to others? Atleast it is fair to repay them for the inconveniences
I agree with your point though I think this is where forgiveness now comes in. May be you should ask for forgiveness from those that you've affected adversely at some point and proceed to repent by confession and accepting and believing in Him.
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Post by Reubeney »

Reubeney wrote:
03 Jun 2020, 19:48
Sushan wrote:
30 May 2020, 22:51
Reubeney wrote:
19 May 2020, 20:17
I think God cares for everyone as an individual and once you accept to believe in Jesus your imperfections and sins are cleansed through faith.
I am confused. How can a belief just wash away your sins? What happens to the impact that it caused to others? Atleast it is fair to repay them for the inconveniences
I agree with your point though I think this is where forgiveness now comes in. May be you should ask for forgiveness from those that you've affected adversely at some point and proceed to repent by confession and accepting and believing in Him.
If I may ask, how would you repay someone or their loved ones for a murder that you did. Assuming your sin was killing.
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Post by Sushan »

Reubeney wrote:
03 Jun 2020, 19:53
Reubeney wrote:
03 Jun 2020, 19:48
Sushan wrote:
30 May 2020, 22:51


I am confused. How can a belief just wash away your sins? What happens to the impact that it caused to others? Atleast it is fair to repay them for the inconveniences
I agree with your point though I think this is where forgiveness now comes in. May be you should ask for forgiveness from those that you've affected adversely at some point and proceed to repent by confession and accepting and believing in Him.
If I may ask, how would you repay someone or their loved ones for a murder that you did. Assuming your sin was killing.
You can't. But that is what is/should have been expected from you by the religion, if all the sins are forgiven
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Post by Wyzdomania_Gskillz »

Nerea wrote:
01 May 2020, 01:18
I like how the author defines Grace (undeserved kindness) and reveals how it affects us. But I beg to differ a little bit with the author’s sentiments in location 343, paragraph 2 where the author talks about how God views us as individuals. He says;

“To be in Christ means that when God looks at you, He doesn’t see all your sins, failures, and rough spots. When you are in Christ, God just sees Jesus. You may see the scars, the mess, and the problems, but God sees perfection in Jesus.”

I don’t know if I’m the one who got it wrong. Feel free to correct me. My issue comes in where the author says, God does not see our effects of imperfection, but He sees perfection in Jesus. I believe God is aware of all our sinful inclinations, and He wants us to change and become useful vessels in His service. To achieve that, He has used His word and His Holy Spirit to help us correct our weaknesses so that we can attain perfection/holiness. He provides comfort whenever we feel low, through the Bible, and give us the strength that will help us endure all our “rough spots.” For God to draw us closer to Christ, He chooses to look at the good in us despite our bad tendencies, failures, and trials. (Ref; Genesis 6:5, Psalms 51:5, Isaiah 48:17,18, 1 peter 1:14-16, 2 Corinthians 1:3,4, John 6:44, Psalms 103:12-14).

Does God only “see perfection in Jesus,” or is He also interested in us as individuals?


Its quite simple.
God sees only Jesus, because for us to enjoy God's grace it means we are already submerged in Jesus. So everything we experience in life sin, imperfections, weaknesses are all hidden, ridden, dealt with and perfected as we remain hidden in Jesus. That's why like you said, the only thing that guides us out of the quagmire of sin and imperfections is Jesus, the word of God!

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Post by Alice Ngugi »

It is true that God sees us as individuals. The Bible says that He call us by name. In our mortal bodies, we are full of weaknesses to a point we could never attain the level that is needed to become holy in God's eyes. Because our body is flesh, it seeks to gratify the needs and cravings of the flesh. But in us there is the spirit that only wants to please God. And all this will always be in conflict. That is why we need the Grace of God through Christ. That it is not what we do, it is what Jesus did for the redemption of all, reconciling us to the Father.

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Post by SophiaNd »

God does see us as individuals but when he looks at us, he sees Jesus and his perfection. On our own we can never attain perfection neither can we attain the height of Holiness that God demands of us. So he gave us His Son, Jesus Christ as to mirror his perfection on our behalf. He doesn't see our sins or failures, He sees Christ.

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Post by Xenolyph »

I actually agree with the author on this. When it is said that God sees Jesus rather than sin when he looks at his children, it is not claiming God is oblivious to our wrongdoings. Rather, He sees the cleanliness Jesus has provided as opposed to the stain of sin. This shows that He looks upon us with grace and saying "you are my child". He sees our sin and forgives when we ask because we are His children. Because He sees His Son in us, He does not condemn us because of our sin.

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Post by ReyvrexQuestor Reyes »

It is said that we get Faith and Salvation through Grace and Mercy. Which means that it is not from good deeds alone that we will be saved from damnation, but by the Mercy of God. Now, the fundamentals of Christianity have all been simple from the start: you follow the Ten Commandments, and everything seems fine. Now comes the scholars and theologians, and all the dogmatic assertions. This comes true even for other religions. It takes more than just to follow Mohammed, Buddha, Baha'u'llah, or other religious seers. The "Religious Laws" seem to get complicated by the minute. For instance, was is needed for Jews to abide by 613 laws? And what about the fanatical requirements for the Jihadists?
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Post by Miller56 »

I agree with this analysis. God knows all of our faults, deficiencies, and thoughts. He knows where we have fallen short but loves us anyway. Maybe the author was saying that even though God knows we are imperfect, He only sees us as forgiven and pure through the blood of Jesus on the cross.
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Post by sonya01 »

I can see your dilemma and agree with the way you are approaching it. Yes, He certainly is aware of every little imperfection of ours as individuals (just as He is aware of our individual good deeds too). But those sins are covered by the perfect blood of Jesus Christ, so we can take refuge and comfort in that. In that respect, the author is using the word “sees” metaphorically here. “B Creech” in the comment above has put it quite succinctly. It makes sense.

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Post by jhunt »

I believe He sees us as individuals and plots our entire lives based on our individuality.

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djr6090 wrote:
05 May 2020, 09:55
I think it is presumptuous to claim knowledge of what God sees. We can only hope he accepts us with all our faults and shortcomings.
I’m an atheist, but if I did believe in a god, I’d agree with your assessment. I don’t think we can know what a diety thinks or sees.

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Post by Yasmira_M »

Religion is complex and claiming to know everything about it or assuming based on personal feelings some times destroy the real meaning of things.

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