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Re: I Beg to Differ.

Posted: 10 Jul 2020, 15:29
by TCG
You are correct in your analysis. But the author is not wrong either. There's need for balance in these biblical truths. Therefore, the both believes are true, they will only apply at different circumstances or situation in life.

Re: I Beg to Differ.

Posted: 11 Jul 2020, 06:38
by Vic Chimezie
As humans born into sin, we are far from perfect. Our redemption came through Christ Jesus. His grace is what makes us fit to be saved and called perfect. Therefore, I agree that God cannot see us ordinarily as perfect if Christ did not die for us.

Re: I Beg to Differ.

Posted: 11 Jul 2020, 12:20
by centfie
God sees as individuals, and because of Jesus we have been reconciled with him. He knows we are dust, his grace covers all that. That's why it's grace, we don't deserve it but he gives it to us.

Re: I Beg to Differ.

Posted: 14 Jul 2020, 10:10
by anaplasticCerebrum
As others have said, I think you and the author are both correct. Different approaches are needed for different circumstances. I think the idea that God only sees Jesus in us is designed to unite us all.

Re: I Beg to Differ.

Posted: 18 Jul 2020, 15:27
by Jen Kamish
I agree that religion is a very individual subject and it is not fair for us to generalize/impose our beliefs on others. I have noticed that a lot of these books on here seem to have religious elements--is this a required theme or does it just happen to be a common interest?

Re: I Beg to Differ.

Posted: 25 Jul 2020, 07:29
by NDeMeer
An interesting point is made here! I believe that God sees all our sins, flaws and weaknesses, as well as our strengths and positives. I believe he sees us as individuals. Thank you for pointing this out!

Re: I Beg to Differ.

Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 10:36
by Christiana+-
It's just only the sacrifice of Christ that brought about this Grace. God is too holy to behold our characters and ways of life so the only thing He do looking at Jesus on us.

Re: I Beg to Differ.

Posted: 02 Aug 2020, 04:05
by David_Kariuki
Nerea wrote:
01 May 2020, 01:18
I like how the author defines Grace (undeserved kindness) and reveals how it affects us. But I beg to differ a little bit with the author’s sentiments in location 343, paragraph 2 where the author talks about how God views us as individuals. He says;

“To be in Christ means that when God looks at you, He doesn’t see all your sins, failures, and rough spots. When you are in Christ, God just sees Jesus. You may see the scars, the mess, and the problems, but God sees perfection in Jesus.”

I don’t know if I’m the one who got it wrong. Feel free to correct me. My issue comes in where the author says, God does not see our effects of imperfection, but He sees perfection in Jesus. I believe God is aware of all our sinful inclinations, and He wants us to change and become useful vessels in His service. To achieve that, He has used His word and His Holy Spirit to help us correct our weaknesses so that we can attain perfection/holiness. He provides comfort whenever we feel low, through the Bible, and give us the strength that will help us endure all our “rough spots.” For God to draw us closer to Christ, He chooses to look at the good in us despite our bad tendencies, failures, and trials. (Ref; Genesis 6:5, Psalms 51:5, Isaiah 48:17,18, 1 peter 1:14-16, 2 Corinthians 1:3,4, John 6:44, Psalms 103:12-14).

Does God only “see perfection in Jesus,” or is He also interested in us as individuals?
I believe that man is a sinful being by nature. God and man meet at the cross, because Christ was given out by God for the sake of man. The Bible clearly states that those who are in Christ, are a new creation, so in essence God knows our individual identity, but sees Christ when He looks at us. I believe, that the moment we repent of our sins and proclaim Christ as our Lord and Savior, Christ becomes our identity.

Re: I Beg to Differ.

Posted: 03 Aug 2020, 05:35
by Chikom
I think we as humans have no ability to know how God views us. God is a powerful supernatural being and we cant assume that when He sees us he sees Jesus in us. Jesus died for humans so that His blood can wash away our sins in God's eyes. But in my humble opinion , I don't think when God Sees us He sees Jesus. The issue at hand is debatable defending your understanding of this book and the Bible at large.

Re: I Beg to Differ.

Posted: 04 Aug 2020, 08:06
by Marvin85
It's very true, when God looks at us he sees Jesus. If so, then who is Jesus in the context of humanity? He is our advocate to the father. Whenever we sin and God looks at us, he sees Jesus and automatically he forgives us and gives us another chance. However, man should not take advantage of his grace. Instead, we should utilize the grace given to us.

Re: I Beg to Differ.

Posted: 04 Aug 2020, 18:00
by Haywhyre7
I do think God sees Jesus in all of us and I completely agree with the concept of the book

Re: I Beg to Differ.

Posted: 05 Aug 2020, 05:10
by LuciusM
For God to see as like Jesus, we must be cleansed by the blood of Jesus. That is to say we must have sincerely repented and accepted Jesus. In this way we are worthy to receive God's grace. To that extent, I tend to believe that not everyone is seen by God the same way. Some are closer to God while others are far away from His grace.

Re: I Beg to Differ.

Posted: 15 Aug 2020, 17:30
by Imstaci-1
Dragonsend wrote:
01 May 2020, 15:14
Most definitely he sees us as individuals. It seems that this comes up a lot in my situation, people think that if God has our path laid out for us from the time that we are born, that we are but his puppet so they waste a lot of time rebelling. God definitely has a plan and a purpose for each of us as individuals. We are each a very unique creation but he gives us free will and some people believe that if they choose God then they are giving up that individuality and their freedom. This, and I state this emphatically, just isn't so. God does want us to be perfect and he loves us as no other and every day is an opportunity to change and strive for what God has allotted for us in this life and in Heaven.
Death,illness, accidents etc are learning experiences and trials that we must face. With faith these experiences are like day to night when faced without God's grace and guidance. I know that sounds like the company line but I am here to testify that it is the truth! Without God we think that we are handling things just fine but that is far from reality.
As far as letting God lead, well I think I would get tired of the stench of my own sins in my nostrils and would have to let's someone else have the reigns.We are meant for perfection but in God's way and not our own. So in answer yes yes yes God most definitely sees us as individuals.
Touched my soul with that. I particularly like when you say, "We are meant for perfection but in God's way and not our own." This is why when we ask for a job, God gives us a business idea ☺️ We need to ask that we get that listening ear allowing us to hear the Holy Spirit.

Re: I Beg to Differ.

Posted: 04 Sep 2020, 09:33
by Astrid H
Nerea wrote:
01 May 2020, 01:18
I like how the author defines Grace (undeserved kindness) and reveals how it affects us. But I beg to differ a little bit with the author’s sentiments in location 343, paragraph 2 where the author talks about how God views us as individuals. He says;

“To be in Christ means that when God looks at you, He doesn’t see all your sins, failures, and rough spots. When you are in Christ, God just sees Jesus. You may see the scars, the mess, and the problems, but God sees perfection in Jesus.”

I don’t know if I’m the one who got it wrong. Feel free to correct me. My issue comes in where the author says, God does not see our effects of imperfection, but He sees perfection in Jesus. I believe God is aware of all our sinful inclinations, and He wants us to change and become useful vessels in His service. To achieve that, He has used His word and His Holy Spirit to help us correct our weaknesses so that we can attain perfection/holiness. He provides comfort whenever we feel low, through the Bible, and give us the strength that will help us endure all our “rough spots.” For God to draw us closer to Christ, He chooses to look at the good in us despite our bad tendencies, failures, and trials. (Ref; Genesis 6:5, Psalms 51:5, Isaiah 48:17,18, 1 peter 1:14-16, 2 Corinthians 1:3,4, John 6:44, Psalms 103:12-14).

Does God only “see perfection in Jesus,” or is He also interested in us as individuals?
I think what the author means is that even though in a way we have betrayed our Papa God, he will be so delighted once we return to him that he won’t pay attention to what we did wrong before, this mirrors the passage in the Bible of the older brother and young son where the father throws a “party” when the son returns making the older son feel jealous. I think the reaction in that bible passage of the father is more or less what the author intended to convey.

Re: I Beg to Differ.

Posted: 04 Sep 2020, 09:37
by Astrid H
djr6090 wrote:
05 May 2020, 09:55
I think it is presumptuous to claim knowledge of what God sees. We can only hope he accepts us with all our faults and shortcomings.
Moreover if Papa God were imperfect would we still love him like he loves us even when WE fail?