Does the book change your religeous beliefs?

Ferdinand_Otieno · Post by **Ferdinand_Otieno** » 03 May 2019, 22:55

Ruba Abu Ali wrote: ↑01 May 2019, 05:18 However interesting the author's arguments are, I don't think they would change anything for me.

It would not change anything for me because I have had my faith shaken by something greater than a book, loss. And if survived that, a book seems the least form to change my belief.

Ferdinand_Otieno · Post by **Ferdinand_Otieno** » 03 May 2019, 22:56

evraealtana wrote: ↑01 May 2019, 19:38
AKShanmar12 wrote: ↑01 May 2019, 17:16 I'm going to pass on this one. While I make a point of NOT avoiding things that disagree with my beliefs, I also don't want to waste the amount of time that reading a whole book would take. Based on the other reviews, it sounds like the author is starting at such a different perspective than my own, I believe that the book would just irritate me. I would rather read something I enjoy!
Amen. Life is too short to start projects that you don't even wish to finish. Good for you.

It would not change anything for me because I have had my faith shaken by something greater than a book, loss. And if survived that, a book seems the least form to change my belief.

Miercoles · Post by **Miercoles** » 03 May 2019, 23:07

No. While the author's opinion is interesting, it really does not change my beliefs.

Ferdinand_Otieno · Post by **Ferdinand_Otieno** » 04 May 2019, 00:42

Miercoles wrote: ↑03 May 2019, 23:07 No. While the author's opinion is interesting, it really does not change my beliefs.

Its great to have unshakeable belief and I commend you

sri varshini303041 · Post by **sri varshini303041** » 04 May 2019, 01:18

No, It doesn't. There are so many theories in this world, filled with different reasons and ideas. If my belief is shaken every time I hear a theory against God, I don't think I really deserve to even have the comfort of believing. I have come to accept that there are many interpretations to God, and I choose to love God the way I have grown up loving God. I don't see the need to change my belief system, just because someone else has found a new way to interpret things. The betrayal of Judas and the questions that the author presents around it has no relevance to my belief.

Ferdinand_Otieno · Post by **Ferdinand_Otieno** » 04 May 2019, 01:18

oaktreehill wrote: ↑01 May 2019, 19:20 Nothing a book could say could change my religion ever. Ones religion should be unshakable and unchangeable. I've read the reviews for this book but to me it's just interesting information. I'm not sure the author us actually trying to convert anyone to mysticism though.

His Gnostic teaching might end up rejected due to the controversial topic of freeing Judas from the biggest betrayal in history. Even now, Judas is the currency and metaphor for betrayal. Changing that perception seems impossible.

Ferdinand_Otieno · Post by **Ferdinand_Otieno** » 04 May 2019, 01:20

sri varshini303041 wrote: ↑04 May 2019, 01:18 No, It doesn't. There are so many theories in this world, filled with different reasons and ideas. If my belief is shaken every time I hear a theory against God, I don't think I really deserve to even have the comfort of believing. I have come to accept that there are many interpretations to God, and I choose to love God the way I have grown up loving God. I don't see the need to change my belief system, just because someone else has found a new way to interpret things. The betrayal of Judas and the questions that the author presents around it has no relevance to my belief.

The true test of faith is withstanding overwhelming doubt. If you have faced your crisis of faith moment, I doubt this book would imact you that much.

sri varshini303041 · Post by **sri varshini303041** » 04 May 2019, 01:23

Ferdinand_otieno wrote: ↑04 May 2019, 01:20
sri varshini303041 wrote: ↑04 May 2019, 01:18 No, It doesn't. There are so many theories in this world, filled with different reasons and ideas. If my belief is shaken every time I hear a theory against God, I don't think I really deserve to even have the comfort of believing. I have come to accept that there are many interpretations to God, and I choose to love God the way I have grown up loving God. I don't see the need to change my belief system, just because someone else has found a new way to interpret things. The betrayal of Judas and the questions that the author presents around it has no relevance to my belief.
The true test of faith is withstanding overwhelming doubt. If you have faced your crisis of faith moment, I doubt this book would imact you that much.

True. I think True faith should be shaken by society's opinions and perceptions. It's more of unbreakable love towards God, that makes the Faith unshakeable. Thank you for your comment.

Ferdinand_Otieno · Post by **Ferdinand_Otieno** » 04 May 2019, 01:26

sri varshini303041 wrote: ↑04 May 2019, 01:23
Ferdinand_otieno wrote: ↑04 May 2019, 01:20
sri varshini303041 wrote: ↑04 May 2019, 01:18 No, It doesn't. There are so many theories in this world, filled with different reasons and ideas. If my belief is shaken every time I hear a theory against God, I don't think I really deserve to even have the comfort of believing. I have come to accept that there are many interpretations to God, and I choose to love God the way I have grown up loving God. I don't see the need to change my belief system, just because someone else has found a new way to interpret things. The betrayal of Judas and the questions that the author presents around it has no relevance to my belief.
The true test of faith is withstanding overwhelming doubt. If you have faced your crisis of faith moment, I doubt this book would imact you that much.
True. I think True faith should be shaken by society's opinions and perceptions. It's more of unbreakable love towards God, that makes the Faith unshakeable. Thank you for your comment.

The current BOTM should highlight the differences in culture, belief, faith, and how people percieve religious educational books. Thanks for participating in the discussion.

Sahansdal · Post by **Sahansdal** » 04 May 2019, 11:26

Ferdinand_otieno wrote: ↑01 May 2019, 00:18 The book seeks to change the normal belief of Judas as the traitor and makes him to have made the ultimate sacrifice. Does the book change or even shake your religeous beliefs?

The premise of this header post is misleading. The sacrifice is a spiritual one, not death of the person physically. The first thing to know about mysticism -- and gnosticism, which are the same -- is that the self is sacrificed spiritually to become one with the Master. I strive to do this every day. It is a process brought about through many years of daily meditation (Matthew 26:40-41).

melel_jo · Post by **melel_jo** » 04 May 2019, 13:17

No, but I was taught that Judas's betrayal wasn't out of greed, but more because he did not truly understand Jesus's teachings. To put is simply, I was taught that Jesus believed Jesus to be a war prophet, and felt that by setting the guards on Jesus, Jesus would finally take up the sword and defeat the Romans.

Sahansdal · Post by **Sahansdal** » 04 May 2019, 13:44

oaktreehill wrote: ↑01 May 2019, 19:20 Nothing a book could say could change my religion ever. Ones religion should be unshakable and unchangeable. I've read the reviews for this book but to me it's just interesting information. I'm not sure the author us actually trying to convert anyone to mysticism though.

No, I am not trying to convert anyone to anything. I just want the truth about the new texts and how they bear on the New Testament to be told.

Sahansdal · Post by **Sahansdal** » 04 May 2019, 13:58

Vscholz wrote: ↑01 May 2019, 20:19
LoisCHenderson wrote: ↑01 May 2019, 07:27 No, it doesn't change my beliefs as such, but merely confirms them. I've always felt deeply about the so-called 'betrayal' of Judas, and thought that he has been maligned for the pivotal role that he played in Jesus's death. According to the Christian view, Christ had to die on the cross to redeem mankind from their sins. Judas was the catalyst and proponent of the Resurrection.
Very interesting belief! It isn't one that is frequently discussed, I don't think, but it is important to remember that Jesus HAD to be crucified. His death allows future generations entrance into Heaven. That being said, Judas played his role. (I'm not super knowledgeable on religions--I find them fascinating but I'm far from a scholar in the field.)

Well, I am. Comparing the gnostic texts with the Gospels and modern mysticism in India, it isn't that hard to piece together what happened in the first and second centuries and how the Church eliminated the Gnostics. Thank God for the lonely monks in Egypt who were thoughtful enough to bury their most treasured writings. Many were killed.

EvaDar · Post by **EvaDar** » 04 May 2019, 14:31

Sahansdal wrote: ↑04 May 2019, 11:26 The premise of this header post is misleading. The sacrifice is a spiritual one, not death of the person physically. The first thing to know about mysticism -- and gnosticism, which are the same -- is that the self is sacrificed spiritually to become one with the Master. I strive to do this every day. It is a process brought about through many years of daily meditation (Matthew 26:40-41).

I appreciate this accurate representation of the mystical sacrifice. This is definitely the lens through which Wahler wrote this book. As a student of Transpersonal Psychology (which means beyond the personal) mystical/spiritual pursuits are a fundamental aspect of my life. I strive for a mystical orientation to the divine, through vipassana meditation as well as more traditional prayer.

I am usually seeking to discover the similarities in different religious and spiritual traditions. I think that, while many on this thread are seeing Christianity and mysticism as mutually exclusive, Christianity's roots are in mysticism. Many of the early saints were mystics. At some point, there was a shift in experience of spiritual teachings from symbolic or metaphorical (mystical) to a literal interpretation.

The very definition of faith is a striving to believe in something we can't experience literally on the physical plane. I think faith is what still tethers modern Christianity to mysticism. The symbolism that runs through all religions arises from mysticism. I believe mysticism is the underpinning that connects all major religions and world spiritual traditions.

Sahansdal · Post by **Sahansdal** » 04 May 2019, 16:04

Misael wrote: ↑03 May 2019, 07:51 I have read the summary and based on it, If have a strong faith in what I believe in, whatever I may read that will contradict my beliefs will not have that strong an impact. The issues or arguments presented may raise some eyebrows but in the end we hold on to our own.

I think if you read my book carefully, you will change how you view the Bible.