Does this book makes the holy bible a fraud?

Use this forum to discuss the December 2020 Book of the month, "Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe" by Hilary L Hunt M.D.
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Sushan Ekanayake
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Re: Does this book makes the holy bible a fraud?

Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

Twylla wrote: 03 Dec 2020, 15:44 I believe it is healthy to question the Bible and your belief system. You need to be sure you have strong foundation for the doctrine you live by. The Bible is the inspired word of God, but it was written by fallible men with limited understanding. The Old Testament stories were passed down orally for generations. The New Testament manuscripts were copied by hand and were inevitably changed over the ages, even if it was unintentional. But the symbolism and basic message still rings true.
That is quite correct. When the knowledge is passed orally from generation to generation, it is inevitable to avoid some changes occurring. So what is shown in the bible today may not be the exact same thing when it was thousands of years ago. One has to question it and find its core to have a more solid belief system
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Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

Eareeves99 wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 00:00 It seems to me that the author is not speaking of Scriptures that he has studied since childhood but someone else’s interpretation of Scriptures that he has been taught. In other words, it seems his opinions are formed from the opinions of others that he believes to be true. The original source is important whether you are going to believe it or argue against it.
That is a very important point, and I too agree that. Since childhood we are being taught about the religions and those teachings are simply the interpretation of somebody. So questioning about what we knew means questioning such interpretations, not the original source. Maybe the original source has been always correct, but not the interpretations
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Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

Arimart99 wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 02:44
Maddie Atkinson wrote: 01 Dec 2020, 07:49 I don't think it makes the Bible a fraud because I believe the Bible is there to guide people through life and help them find answers, or allow them to seek comfort. I think that the book is questioning the core beliefs of the Church, specifically the Catholic, as they appear to be hypocritical the more you delve into its history. So rather than making the Bible a fraud, I think the book is purely questioning those who preach it and whether they are the ones who are frauds (a controversial opinion I know, but an opinion nonetheless).
I actually agree with your opinion. Many times it seems like the author is questioning the beliefs of the Catholic Church more than he is questioning the Bible itself. We have to remember that the Catholic Church has been wrong many times in their interpretations of the Bible (or, I should say, changed their interpretations of the Bible many times). Therefore, if anyone is being exposed as a fraud, it would be the Church and not the Bible.
Maybe that is the whole point of the book, to reveal the corrupted nature of the Catholic church and to purify the bible from their erroneous interpretations, and to show the true devouts what actually the bible says
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Post by RHD »

There have been too many critics of the Bible. If this is one of them, then it isn't even one of the major ones. I don't understand why the holy book is one of the most criticized, could it be because it's true? We might never know for sure! Regardless, whether the Bible or this book is a fraud, the reader is the decision maker.
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

Arimart99 wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 02:44
Maddie Atkinson wrote: 01 Dec 2020, 07:49 I don't think it makes the Bible a fraud because I believe the Bible is there to guide people through life and help them find answers, or allow them to seek comfort. I think that the book is questioning the core beliefs of the Church, specifically the Catholic, as they appear to be hypocritical the more you delve into its history. So rather than making the Bible a fraud, I think the book is purely questioning those who preach it and whether they are the ones who are frauds (a controversial opinion I know, but an opinion nonetheless).
I actually agree with your opinion. Many times it seems like the author is questioning the beliefs of the Catholic Church more than he is questioning the Bible itself. We have to remember that the Catholic Church has been wrong many times in their interpretations of the Bible (or, I should say, changed their interpretations of the Bible many times). Therefore, if anyone is being exposed as a fraud, it would be the Church and not the Bible.
I'm glad you agree! The author is clearly religious, but doesn't seem to agree with the religion they were raised on, so I think that they are definitely questioning the authority of the Church rather than making the Bible a fraud!
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Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

RHD wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 09:07 There have been too many critics of the Bible. If this is one of them, then it isn't even one of the major ones. I don't understand why the holy book is one of the most criticized, could it be because it's true? We might never know for sure! Regardless, whether the Bible or this book is a fraud, the reader is the decision maker.
Sure it is the reader who has to decide and more or less the author has given enough space for the reader's free will. The reason why the bible is being criticized, as I see, because the things stated says something in the word value and the deep meaning can vary according to the reader. So such interpretations can be criticized and ultimately such criticisms are directed towards their source, the bible
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Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

Maddie Atkinson wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 11:13
Arimart99 wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 02:44
Maddie Atkinson wrote: 01 Dec 2020, 07:49 I don't think it makes the Bible a fraud because I believe the Bible is there to guide people through life and help them find answers, or allow them to seek comfort. I think that the book is questioning the core beliefs of the Church, specifically the Catholic, as they appear to be hypocritical the more you delve into its history. So rather than making the Bible a fraud, I think the book is purely questioning those who preach it and whether they are the ones who are frauds (a controversial opinion I know, but an opinion nonetheless).
I actually agree with your opinion. Many times it seems like the author is questioning the beliefs of the Catholic Church more than he is questioning the Bible itself. We have to remember that the Catholic Church has been wrong many times in their interpretations of the Bible (or, I should say, changed their interpretations of the Bible many times). Therefore, if anyone is being exposed as a fraud, it would be the Church and not the Bible.
I'm glad you agree! The author is clearly religious, but doesn't seem to agree with the religion they were raised on, so I think that they are definitely questioning the authority of the Church rather than making the Bible a fraud!
The author is questioning the church via this book regarding its authority to change God's word as per the need of political agendas and the authority to misguide its followers for mere mundane purposes. And he is also trying to see the practical and true aspect of the bible
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Post by Eutoc »

It's quite true that there are a lot of changes that has been made to the bible. These are because of a lot of causes like translation, to avoid misinterpretation, compactness etc. I think the author sees this book as one of the means through which this info can be spread and not that the bible is fraud or that the book is more than the bible.
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Post by ankushavhad »

Certainly not. Mere attempt! The pioneer guide in holy teachings we cultivated for generations is not subjective. Any attempt towards tarnishing such gems shows their importance. Wise people know what really the fraud is.
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Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

ankushavhad wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 23:29 Certainly not. Mere attempt! The pioneer guide in holy teachings we cultivated for generations is not subjective. Any attempt towards tarnishing such gems shows their importance. Wise people know what really the fraud is.
Something lasting for thousands of years means that there is some importance and acceptance to that thing. So clearly the bible and its teachings has been accepted for many generations. But in my opinion, only because of being known for years or being accepted by majority doesn't make anything true. Please don't feel offended
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Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

Eutoc wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 15:37 It's quite true that there are a lot of changes that has been made to the bible. These are because of a lot of causes like translation, to avoid misinterpretation, compactness etc. I think the author sees this book as one of the means through which this info can be spread and not that the bible is fraud or that the book is more than the bible.
Certainly a single author's book cannot be taken superior to a religious book which has been accepted for a long time by many generations. Yet, there are things in the bible that might have lost their initial meaning and purpose through its many translations and editions. So it is wise to use this sort of books to clarify such points
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

ankushavhad wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 23:29 Certainly not. Mere attempt! The pioneer guide in holy teachings we cultivated for generations is not subjective. Any attempt towards tarnishing such gems shows their importance. Wise people know what really the fraud is.
On the contrary, think it is subjective. Whenever you read it, you interpret what it says due to the morals that you hold to yourself. It is not done on purpose unless you manipulate it for your own good. It is impossible to be unbiased. I don't think they are even attempting to make the Bible a fraud, but rather question those who preach it and twist its meanings. The author is offering a different interpretation of the Bible, if anything, he is making a fraud out of religious leaders! No offense meant, I am just trying to offer a different way of looking at what the author is doing!!!
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Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

Maddie Atkinson wrote: 05 Dec 2020, 06:25
ankushavhad wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 23:29 Certainly not. Mere attempt! The pioneer guide in holy teachings we cultivated for generations is not subjective. Any attempt towards tarnishing such gems shows their importance. Wise people know what really the fraud is.
On the contrary, think it is subjective. Whenever you read it, you interpret what it says due to the morals that you hold to yourself. It is not done on purpose unless you manipulate it for your own good. It is impossible to be unbiased. I don't think they are even attempting to make the Bible a fraud, but rather question those who preach it and twist its meanings. The author is offering a different interpretation of the Bible, if anything, he is making a fraud out of religious leaders! No offense meant, I am just trying to offer a different way of looking at what the author is doing!!!
If you have an original version of the bible and you have adequate intelligence, you can read it on your own and interpret it. Many have adequate intelligence but the problem is an original bible has become scarce since it has been covered by many false interpretations throughout the history, and the author is apparently trying to remove them and uncover the true meaning of the biblical teachings
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Post by mariana90 »

I don't think Hunt believes the Bible itself to be fraudulent. But it can only be expected that a book that is over two thousand years old, written in a language that is practically dead, has suffered modifications over the years. And I think Hunt is questioning those modifications: one example of this, as a poster has mentioned above, are the different translations.
I wonder why there are several gospels but only four are considered canonical and actually included in the Bible. Why is the Gospel of Thomas not considered canonical? And what about the Gospel of Mary? Could it be that in compiling the book, the persons behind that effort wanted to create a certain narrative?
All religions have been manipulated over the years for someone's advantage. Believing doesn't mean one can't question religion.
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Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

mariana90 wrote: 05 Dec 2020, 19:09 I don't think Hunt believes the Bible itself to be fraudulent. But it can only be expected that a book that is over two thousand years old, written in a language that is practically dead, has suffered modifications over the years. And I think Hunt is questioning those modifications: one example of this, as a poster has mentioned above, are the different translations.
I wonder why there are several gospels but only four are considered canonical and actually included in the Bible. Why is the Gospel of Thomas not considered canonical? And what about the Gospel of Mary? Could it be that in compiling the book, the persons behind that effort wanted to create a certain narrative?
All religions have been manipulated over the years for someone's advantage. Believing doesn't mean one can't question religion.
Yes, the author is questioning those modifications and those who were behind that. He wants to uncover the truth, mainly about the god and the universe. In that attempt he may have disproved few fraudulent modifications that some corrupted personnel have included into biblical teachings
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