Are Hunt's views on the Church universal?
- Maddie Atkinson
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Re: Are Hunt's views on the Church universal?
You haven't offended me, and I am sorry if I came across harsh in any way. But you must understand that I am judged for my sexuality because of what the Bible says. I just don't see how it originally said that, considering homosexuality wasn't even a word then, and the original word meant boy. God made us all and He doesn't make mistakes, so being gay just cannot be a sin in my eyes. We do have different perspectives on life, and that's okay! But may I ask you something, without judgement of your church or the way you live? Why do we have to agree to disagree on the rights that someone has? I believe it is my right to love who I love. I am not harming anyone or changing your life for being gay. I am not asking you to understand what I go through every day for loving who I love, I am not judging you for the church you are a part of or the way you were brought up. I am just asking, based on your just your understanding of human rights. Why should I not be allowed to be who I am if it is God that made me that way?Thea Frederick wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 13:04Alright, well, I can see this won't go anywhere. To fully understand my point of view you would have to understand the church I am apart of and the teaching and lifestyle that accompanies it. But it is the same for me as well. So, I guess we have to agree to disagree.Maddie Atkinson wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 08:27You don't have to agree or disagree, but it is what happened, it's not an opinion it's a fact. Do you really believe that God wants everyone to love each other, but draws the line at same sex? It doesn't affect Him, or anyone else besides the people it involves and it isn't anyone's business but theirs. Also, religion or not, I don't think anyone gets to decide that some people deserve more human rights than another. I am gay and that is not a sin. That mistranslation has led to more deaths than you could possibly imagine because people have believed in it so whole heartedly, or have used it to support their own agenda that they thought it was their right to kill people just for who they love.Thea Frederick wrote: ↑01 Jan 2021, 22:43
I disagree about the mistranslation, but that is okay. We don't have to agree.
They aren't perfect, but, like I said, they are working together and PRAYING. They dedicate their lives to the service of God and his people and they keep each other in line. That is why the Eastern Orthodox Church does not believe in the infallibility of the pope. He is a man and also likely to sin. In the Eastern Orthodox Church there is a synod of bishops so that when one is making a mistake the others can counsel against it.
Do you really believe that we each have the wisdom to determine the meaning behind all of God's words? I certainly don't have that wisdom. I don't pray and seek God's will nearly enough to know his Truth when it confronts me.
I personally believe that I have the right to make my own choices, and I shouldn't be told by someone interpreting the Bible what path I should take, because that is their interpretation of the Bible. What makes a priest or bishop more wise than me when it comes to interpreting the Bible? I think all of us have the wisdom to determine God's word because we all have different morals and different values, so God's word means a different thing to each person. We shouldn't have to follow one path just because someone told us what their opinion on God's word was!
I appreciate your willingness to discuss with me. I hope I have not offended you. We just clearly live by different morals and guidelines and we have different perspectives on life.
I really am sorry if I have caused offense, I really do understand the way different churches and beliefs lead to different lifestyles. I didn't mean for this to not go anywhere. Sometimes debating beliefs doesn't have to lead to persuading the other to change, but rather challenges and helps people think on other perspectives. I wouldn't want to change what you believe at all, and I really am sorry for coming off as aggressive, it is just hard to get tone across through typing answers rather than actually talking!
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You have not offended me either, and I appreciate your willingness to debate with me calmly and kindly (some people aren't able to do that).Maddie Atkinson wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 14:31You haven't offended me, and I am sorry if I came across harsh in any way. But you must understand that I am judged for my sexuality because of what the Bible says. I just don't see how it originally said that, considering homosexuality wasn't even a word then, and the original word meant boy. God made us all and He doesn't make mistakes, so being gay just cannot be a sin in my eyes. We do have different perspectives on life, and that's okay! But may I ask you something, without judgement of your church or the way you live? Why do we have to agree to disagree on the rights that someone has? I believe it is my right to love who I love. I am not harming anyone or changing your life for being gay. I am not asking you to understand what I go through every day for loving who I love, I am not judging you for the church you are a part of or the way you were brought up. I am just asking, based on your just your understanding of human rights. Why should I not be allowed to be who I am if it is God that made me that way?Thea Frederick wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 13:04Alright, well, I can see this won't go anywhere. To fully understand my point of view you would have to understand the church I am apart of and the teaching and lifestyle that accompanies it. But it is the same for me as well. So, I guess we have to agree to disagree.Maddie Atkinson wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 08:27
You don't have to agree or disagree, but it is what happened, it's not an opinion it's a fact. Do you really believe that God wants everyone to love each other, but draws the line at same sex? It doesn't affect Him, or anyone else besides the people it involves and it isn't anyone's business but theirs. Also, religion or not, I don't think anyone gets to decide that some people deserve more human rights than another. I am gay and that is not a sin. That mistranslation has led to more deaths than you could possibly imagine because people have believed in it so whole heartedly, or have used it to support their own agenda that they thought it was their right to kill people just for who they love.
I personally believe that I have the right to make my own choices, and I shouldn't be told by someone interpreting the Bible what path I should take, because that is their interpretation of the Bible. What makes a priest or bishop more wise than me when it comes to interpreting the Bible? I think all of us have the wisdom to determine God's word because we all have different morals and different values, so God's word means a different thing to each person. We shouldn't have to follow one path just because someone told us what their opinion on God's word was!
I appreciate your willingness to discuss with me. I hope I have not offended you. We just clearly live by different morals and guidelines and we have different perspectives on life.
I really am sorry if I have caused offense, I really do understand the way different churches and beliefs lead to different lifestyles. I didn't mean for this to not go anywhere. Sometimes debating beliefs doesn't have to lead to persuading the other to change, but rather challenges and helps people think on other perspectives. I wouldn't want to change what you believe at all, and I really am sorry for coming off as aggressive, it is just hard to get tone across through typing answers rather than actually talking!
I understand where you are coming from (though I have never experienced it and cannot know what it feels like, I can understand how you would feel) and I am sorry if you feel like an outcast. Honestly, I do understand how it feels to be somewhat of an outcast. As I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian my church practices are much more ascetical and different from other denominations (as the practices have been preserved over hundreds of years, you would not see our worship and think "modern" , it is full of old traditions and long preserved beauty. As such, my immediate family and I are always sort of the "black sheep" of the family. The ones who have different church practices, who fast, confess, and have many different services. So we are seen as sort of strange to other people.
Just to be clear, my church does not judge people who are homosexual. We do not believe it is what God wants and we do not believe it is how God made us to be, but we do not judge people who do. We love them and pray for them. There are some churches that would hate and reject those people, but we are not one of them.
We see it more as a state of sin and fallenness of the human race. As such, it would be a temptation that one would fight against rather than accept as the way God made them. But as long as the person is fighting and confessing their sins and following God's commandments they are allowed to participate in the sacraments of the church. But the Orthodox Church does not hate homosexual people nor does it judge them (individual Orthodox Christians may judge, but that is their own sin which they need to fight).
I understand that the above beliefs are not ones that you share. I am just explaining how my church views it (I am not trying to insult you or judge you, just help you understand where my beliefs come from).
So, to address your question, the reason I say we must agree to disagree is because I can't agree that God made us that way and I can't agree that it does not harm people as I see it as a state of sin. But, I do appreciate your respect for other churches and other lifestyles and while I may not agree with your decisions, I do respect the free will that God gave each of us and I do not judge you for your decisions.
I have to tell you, I immensely appreciate you discussions with me. Like you said, even if our stance on the matters we discuss do not change, discussing widens our perspectives and helps us understand each other better. It is one of the reasons I enjoy discussing controversial topics with people. Thank you
- Maddie Atkinson
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I very much enjoy these discussions I have had with you and I am glad I have not offended you. People don't always have to agree to get along and I am glad we have been able to debate without judgement or anger, but rather understanding and kindness!Thea Frederick wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 12:11You have not offended me either, and I appreciate your willingness to debate with me calmly and kindly (some people aren't able to do that).Maddie Atkinson wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 14:31You haven't offended me, and I am sorry if I came across harsh in any way. But you must understand that I am judged for my sexuality because of what the Bible says. I just don't see how it originally said that, considering homosexuality wasn't even a word then, and the original word meant boy. God made us all and He doesn't make mistakes, so being gay just cannot be a sin in my eyes. We do have different perspectives on life, and that's okay! But may I ask you something, without judgement of your church or the way you live? Why do we have to agree to disagree on the rights that someone has? I believe it is my right to love who I love. I am not harming anyone or changing your life for being gay. I am not asking you to understand what I go through every day for loving who I love, I am not judging you for the church you are a part of or the way you were brought up. I am just asking, based on your just your understanding of human rights. Why should I not be allowed to be who I am if it is God that made me that way?Thea Frederick wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 13:04
Alright, well, I can see this won't go anywhere. To fully understand my point of view you would have to understand the church I am apart of and the teaching and lifestyle that accompanies it. But it is the same for me as well. So, I guess we have to agree to disagree.
I appreciate your willingness to discuss with me. I hope I have not offended you. We just clearly live by different morals and guidelines and we have different perspectives on life.
I really am sorry if I have caused offense, I really do understand the way different churches and beliefs lead to different lifestyles. I didn't mean for this to not go anywhere. Sometimes debating beliefs doesn't have to lead to persuading the other to change, but rather challenges and helps people think on other perspectives. I wouldn't want to change what you believe at all, and I really am sorry for coming off as aggressive, it is just hard to get tone across through typing answers rather than actually talking!
I understand where you are coming from (though I have never experienced it and cannot know what it feels like, I can understand how you would feel) and I am sorry if you feel like an outcast. Honestly, I do understand how it feels to be somewhat of an outcast. As I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian my church practices are much more ascetical and different from other denominations (as the practices have been preserved over hundreds of years, you would not see our worship and think "modern" , it is full of old traditions and long preserved beauty. As such, my immediate family and I are always sort of the "black sheep" of the family. The ones who have different church practices, who fast, confess, and have many different services. So we are seen as sort of strange to other people.
Just to be clear, my church does not judge people who are homosexual. We do not believe it is what God wants and we do not believe it is how God made us to be, but we do not judge people who do. We love them and pray for them. There are some churches that would hate and reject those people, but we are not one of them.
We see it more as a state of sin and fallenness of the human race. As such, it would be a temptation that one would fight against rather than accept as the way God made them. But as long as the person is fighting and confessing their sins and following God's commandments they are allowed to participate in the sacraments of the church. But the Orthodox Church does not hate homosexual people nor does it judge them (individual Orthodox Christians may judge, but that is their own sin which they need to fight).
I understand that the above beliefs are not ones that you share. I am just explaining how my church views it (I am not trying to insult you or judge you, just help you understand where my beliefs come from).
So, to address your question, the reason I say we must agree to disagree is because I can't agree that God made us that way and I can't agree that it does not harm people as I see it as a state of sin. But, I do appreciate your respect for other churches and other lifestyles and while I may not agree with your decisions, I do respect the free will that God gave each of us and I do not judge you for your decisions.
I have to tell you, I immensely appreciate you discussions with me. Like you said, even if our stance on the matters we discuss do not change, discussing widens our perspectives and helps us understand each other better. It is one of the reasons I enjoy discussing controversial topics with people. Thank you
I am glad that your church doesn't judge, even if you don't agree with my beliefs. I guess a reason I have a different view is because a) I am gay so I find it hard to see other people's points of view on homosexuality and b) my church is the Church of England (I'm British!) which has is recent years changed their stance on homosexuality! Being very interested in sociology, I love hearing about different denominations' beliefs and debating, it helps me to learn more about the world!
May I ask why you believe homosexuality hurts people? (and also say that being gay is not a decision, I love my girlfriend very much and I don't believe love is a choice!). Again I don't mean any offense by questioning your beliefs, I am just interested, most Christians I talk to about this don't like to debate, but rather tell me I am going to hell, which is a bit hurtful really (but at least I'll be warm! ). - I'm sorry to keep repeating 'I hope I haven't offended you', I have severe anxiety so worry about hurting people a lot
Also, may I ask if I can add you as a friend on here? I like you! (no homo don't worry! I'm in a committed relationship! )
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Ooh, England! I love England but I have never been, I'm DYING to visit! Where in England do you live?Maddie Atkinson wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 14:23I very much enjoy these discussions I have had with you and I am glad I have not offended you. People don't always have to agree to get along and I am glad we have been able to debate without judgement or anger, but rather understanding and kindness!Thea Frederick wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 12:11You have not offended me either, and I appreciate your willingness to debate with me calmly and kindly (some people aren't able to do that).Maddie Atkinson wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 14:31
You haven't offended me, and I am sorry if I came across harsh in any way. But you must understand that I am judged for my sexuality because of what the Bible says. I just don't see how it originally said that, considering homosexuality wasn't even a word then, and the original word meant boy. God made us all and He doesn't make mistakes, so being gay just cannot be a sin in my eyes. We do have different perspectives on life, and that's okay! But may I ask you something, without judgement of your church or the way you live? Why do we have to agree to disagree on the rights that someone has? I believe it is my right to love who I love. I am not harming anyone or changing your life for being gay. I am not asking you to understand what I go through every day for loving who I love, I am not judging you for the church you are a part of or the way you were brought up. I am just asking, based on your just your understanding of human rights. Why should I not be allowed to be who I am if it is God that made me that way?
I really am sorry if I have caused offense, I really do understand the way different churches and beliefs lead to different lifestyles. I didn't mean for this to not go anywhere. Sometimes debating beliefs doesn't have to lead to persuading the other to change, but rather challenges and helps people think on other perspectives. I wouldn't want to change what you believe at all, and I really am sorry for coming off as aggressive, it is just hard to get tone across through typing answers rather than actually talking!
I understand where you are coming from (though I have never experienced it and cannot know what it feels like, I can understand how you would feel) and I am sorry if you feel like an outcast. Honestly, I do understand how it feels to be somewhat of an outcast. As I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian my church practices are much more ascetical and different from other denominations (as the practices have been preserved over hundreds of years, you would not see our worship and think "modern" , it is full of old traditions and long preserved beauty. As such, my immediate family and I are always sort of the "black sheep" of the family. The ones who have different church practices, who fast, confess, and have many different services. So we are seen as sort of strange to other people.
Just to be clear, my church does not judge people who are homosexual. We do not believe it is what God wants and we do not believe it is how God made us to be, but we do not judge people who do. We love them and pray for them. There are some churches that would hate and reject those people, but we are not one of them.
We see it more as a state of sin and fallenness of the human race. As such, it would be a temptation that one would fight against rather than accept as the way God made them. But as long as the person is fighting and confessing their sins and following God's commandments they are allowed to participate in the sacraments of the church. But the Orthodox Church does not hate homosexual people nor does it judge them (individual Orthodox Christians may judge, but that is their own sin which they need to fight).
I understand that the above beliefs are not ones that you share. I am just explaining how my church views it (I am not trying to insult you or judge you, just help you understand where my beliefs come from).
So, to address your question, the reason I say we must agree to disagree is because I can't agree that God made us that way and I can't agree that it does not harm people as I see it as a state of sin. But, I do appreciate your respect for other churches and other lifestyles and while I may not agree with your decisions, I do respect the free will that God gave each of us and I do not judge you for your decisions.
I have to tell you, I immensely appreciate you discussions with me. Like you said, even if our stance on the matters we discuss do not change, discussing widens our perspectives and helps us understand each other better. It is one of the reasons I enjoy discussing controversial topics with people. Thank you
I am glad that your church doesn't judge, even if you don't agree with my beliefs. I guess a reason I have a different view is because a) I am gay so I find it hard to see other people's points of view on homosexuality and b) my church is the Church of England (I'm British!) which has is recent years changed their stance on homosexuality! Being very interested in sociology, I love hearing about different denominations' beliefs and debating, it helps me to learn more about the world!
May I ask why you believe homosexuality hurts people? (and also say that being gay is not a decision, I love my girlfriend very much and I don't believe love is a choice!). Again I don't mean any offense by questioning your beliefs, I am just interested, most Christians I talk to about this don't like to debate, but rather tell me I am going to hell, which is a bit hurtful really (but at least I'll be warm! ). - I'm sorry to keep repeating 'I hope I haven't offended you', I have severe anxiety so worry about hurting people a lot
Also, may I ask if I can add you as a friend on here? I like you! (no homo don't worry! I'm in a committed relationship! )
So, since my church sees homosexuality as a state of sin we believe that it hurts the souls of the people who are engaging in that sin. Sin is separating oneself from God because sin is the absence of God, and separating ourselves from God is the worst thing we can do. And it isn't that you can't love someone who is the same sex as you, it's just that it would be a different kind of love. More of a sisterly love. Sexuality would remain between a woman and her husband (or no one, if one didn't have a husband). So if one found themselves sexually attracted to someone of their own sex, in the Orthodox church this would be something to fight against and talk to their priest about for guidance rather than except. This is because we see it as a temptation and part of the fallenness of humanity, not as the way God made us.
It is sort of like me saying "I feel the inclination to steal." And rather than resisting the temptation I give into it and say "this is the way God made me." That is to say, simply because I have an inclination towards something or feel strongly drawn to it does not mean that God made me to be that way.
Now, I say that because in the Orthodox church we see both stealing and homosexuality as sins, but I realize that you do not see homosexuality as a sin so I do not mean to offend you by making a parallel with stealing, I was just comparing two things that the Orthodox church considers to be sins.
Don't worry about it, you have not offended me at all. I also have anxiety so I understand!
You may absolutely friend me! I will friend you back, I have enjoyed our discussions
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It's definitely worth a visit when it's not raining or when the pandemic is over, it is truly beautiful! I am from a small town just outside London called Reading!Thea Frederick wrote: ↑05 Jan 2021, 18:00Ooh, England! I love England but I have never been, I'm DYING to visit! Where in England do you live?Maddie Atkinson wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 14:23I very much enjoy these discussions I have had with you and I am glad I have not offended you. People don't always have to agree to get along and I am glad we have been able to debate without judgement or anger, but rather understanding and kindness!Thea Frederick wrote: ↑04 Jan 2021, 12:11
You have not offended me either, and I appreciate your willingness to debate with me calmly and kindly (some people aren't able to do that).
I understand where you are coming from (though I have never experienced it and cannot know what it feels like, I can understand how you would feel) and I am sorry if you feel like an outcast. Honestly, I do understand how it feels to be somewhat of an outcast. As I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian my church practices are much more ascetical and different from other denominations (as the practices have been preserved over hundreds of years, you would not see our worship and think "modern" , it is full of old traditions and long preserved beauty. As such, my immediate family and I are always sort of the "black sheep" of the family. The ones who have different church practices, who fast, confess, and have many different services. So we are seen as sort of strange to other people.
Just to be clear, my church does not judge people who are homosexual. We do not believe it is what God wants and we do not believe it is how God made us to be, but we do not judge people who do. We love them and pray for them. There are some churches that would hate and reject those people, but we are not one of them.
We see it more as a state of sin and fallenness of the human race. As such, it would be a temptation that one would fight against rather than accept as the way God made them. But as long as the person is fighting and confessing their sins and following God's commandments they are allowed to participate in the sacraments of the church. But the Orthodox Church does not hate homosexual people nor does it judge them (individual Orthodox Christians may judge, but that is their own sin which they need to fight).
I understand that the above beliefs are not ones that you share. I am just explaining how my church views it (I am not trying to insult you or judge you, just help you understand where my beliefs come from).
So, to address your question, the reason I say we must agree to disagree is because I can't agree that God made us that way and I can't agree that it does not harm people as I see it as a state of sin. But, I do appreciate your respect for other churches and other lifestyles and while I may not agree with your decisions, I do respect the free will that God gave each of us and I do not judge you for your decisions.
I have to tell you, I immensely appreciate you discussions with me. Like you said, even if our stance on the matters we discuss do not change, discussing widens our perspectives and helps us understand each other better. It is one of the reasons I enjoy discussing controversial topics with people. Thank you
I am glad that your church doesn't judge, even if you don't agree with my beliefs. I guess a reason I have a different view is because a) I am gay so I find it hard to see other people's points of view on homosexuality and b) my church is the Church of England (I'm British!) which has is recent years changed their stance on homosexuality! Being very interested in sociology, I love hearing about different denominations' beliefs and debating, it helps me to learn more about the world!
May I ask why you believe homosexuality hurts people? (and also say that being gay is not a decision, I love my girlfriend very much and I don't believe love is a choice!). Again I don't mean any offense by questioning your beliefs, I am just interested, most Christians I talk to about this don't like to debate, but rather tell me I am going to hell, which is a bit hurtful really (but at least I'll be warm! ). - I'm sorry to keep repeating 'I hope I haven't offended you', I have severe anxiety so worry about hurting people a lot
Also, may I ask if I can add you as a friend on here? I like you! (no homo don't worry! I'm in a committed relationship! )
So, since my church sees homosexuality as a state of sin we believe that it hurts the souls of the people who are engaging in that sin. Sin is separating oneself from God because sin is the absence of God, and separating ourselves from God is the worst thing we can do. And it isn't that you can't love someone who is the same sex as you, it's just that it would be a different kind of love. More of a sisterly love. Sexuality would remain between a woman and her husband (or no one, if one didn't have a husband). So if one found themselves sexually attracted to someone of their own sex, in the Orthodox church this would be something to fight against and talk to their priest about for guidance rather than except. This is because we see it as a temptation and part of the fallenness of humanity, not as the way God made us.
It is sort of like me saying "I feel the inclination to steal." And rather than resisting the temptation I give into it and say "this is the way God made me." That is to say, simply because I have an inclination towards something or feel strongly drawn to it does not mean that God made me to be that way.
Now, I say that because in the Orthodox church we see both stealing and homosexuality as sins, but I realize that you do not see homosexuality as a sin so I do not mean to offend you by making a parallel with stealing, I was just comparing two things that the Orthodox church considers to be sins.
Don't worry about it, you have not offended me at all. I also have anxiety so I understand!
You may absolutely friend me! I will friend you back, I have enjoyed our discussions
Ah I understand! While I do not agree with you, I understand where you are coming from! You have not offended me by making a parallel with stealing don't worry. - side note: I find understanding someone's perspective allows you to debate without causing offense because you know the right things to say and the right way to put them!
Let me put my views (from personal experience) into perspective so you understand where I am coming from! The way you are attracted to men, is the way I feel towards women. It is not a feeling I can help. With stealing, it is an action that is consciously made and you know it is wrong. No one is born with the need to steal stuff. With being gay, it is just the same with being straight. I was born with a different reaction towards people that you do! For you, men give you serotonin, dopamine, oxytocin etc. (i.e. the attractions that together are known as love!). For me, I get the same reactions, just towards women! I believe that God made me that way because it is a feeling that you are born with. It is the hormones and the chemicals that everybody has, just towards a different gender! This does not mean that I don't think men are pretty, I can find them attractive, I am just not attractED to them, just like you may see women as pretty, but you don't feel any attraction to them! I hope that makes sense? I don't mean to change your perspective, just simply help you see mine!
I have now friended you! I have enjoyed our discussions too!
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