Do you think Gary should plead guilty in court?

Anna Bookowski · Post by **Anna Bookowski** » 07 Jul 2021, 11:29

Guda LM wrote: ↑07 Jul 2021, 00:06 A person is guilty when they have committed the crime. However, Gary's situation was different. He was actually the one that stubbed Michelle and at the same time, it was not him but another version. On the one hand, he needed to plead guilty to give the family closure and end the pain, and he also needed to prove his innocence. A very very difficult task that led to more rifts. Maybe he should have pleaded guilty, but resigning to a life of incarceration knowing of your innocence is also hard.

It is a very complicated and unique situation. After reading all the posts on this forum I came to the conclusion that the only right thing would be for Gary to plead not guilty. Then the court should pronounce him guilty - because he did commit the crime - but let him free from responsibility and not place him in prison. Simply because he's already punished by the pain he feels. On the other hand, it brings the risk that this way of reasoning would be abused in other similar cases in the future, and that brings a new sort of danger. Common criminals could use similar defense later on. It is really confusing, isn't it.

Urvashi Tripathi · Post by **Urvashi Tripathi** » 07 Jul 2021, 14:34

I think so Gary should not be plead guilty as the action is took by Gary from the other worldline. In fact Gary loved Mitchell, and I think so there should be an evidence for his innocence. Even though Gary saw the video recording of killing Mitchell he should not feel guilty as he was not responsible for that action. Gary should fight back and should not be plead guilty.

yomide · Post by **yomide** » 08 Jul 2021, 13:57

Anna Bookowski wrote: ↑01 Jul 2021, 12:35
Mtibza eM wrote: ↑01 Jul 2021, 12:24 He shouldn't please guilty, although it'll be hard for him to prove his innocence, it is better to go down fighting than giving up.
I also don't think he should plead guilty. I was thinking about what would I do in his place. Perhaps I would feel so terrible after seeing the video from the security camera, I would feel guilty after all? I imagine it would hurt me so much to be judged for such a crime, I wouldn't have the power to fight for myself. You're right - it would be extremely hard to prove innocence. I guess more people would believe in serious mental health problems than that he was overtaken by other-self, though.

Who wouldn't feel wieghed down with guilt aftet seeing such video. I mean, i would and i really give Gary all credits for his will power to not let that guilt push him down. Sincerely, i am not sure how or what i would do.

Anna Bookowski · Post by **Anna Bookowski** » 08 Jul 2021, 14:34

Urvashi Tripathi wrote: ↑07 Jul 2021, 14:34 I think so Gary should not be plead guilty as the action is took by Gary from the other worldline. In fact Gary loved Mitchell, and I think so there should be an evidence for his innocence. Even though Gary saw the video recording of killing Mitchell he should not feel guilty as he was not responsible for that action. Gary should fight back and should not be plead guilty.

I also think that the fact that he loved Michelle so much is very important and I don't even want to imagine how I would feel being in his place. I think if it would be me I would feel guilty anyway, especially after seeing myself on the video. It's so hard to say he's not guilty when we know he did it. So I guess he is kind of guilty, but at the same time, I think the court should apply special treatment and not punish him as murderers normally are. But also, I don't imagine that in the real world any court would believe in this way of defense.

fridamadrid · Post by **fridamadrid** » 08 Jul 2021, 14:49

Anna Bookowski wrote: ↑01 Jul 2021, 09:35 Do you think Gary should plead guilty or not? His father advised him to do so in order to pay respect to Michelle's parents. Mrs. Cohen advised him to plead not guilty as he did not remember his actions. Gary in prison was sure he did not commit the crime, but whether he was in control of his actions or not, he did commit the murder. What do you think?

I think he should plead not guilty because I feel like you should always be true to yourself and to others. Now, to decide whether he did commit the crime or not depends on who is him? is he his mind? is he his body? It gets too deep.
I personally thing he didn't commit the crime, so he should plead not guilty. Also, pleading guilty wouldn't really have any benefits, would it?

yomide · Post by **yomide** » 08 Jul 2021, 14:56

scaryeyes_25 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2021, 01:18 Pleading guilty or not guilty depends on what he wants to give importance. Pleading guilty will give Michelle's family closure. Because physically he did kill Michelle. The not guilty plea and proving that he is not in complete control of his mind and body during that specific time can acquit him. But can it give him closure and peace of mind? Knowing that a version of himself is guilty.
So I think even if it is unfair, it is right for him to plead guilty.

That is a really good perspective, i like it. But if he peads guilty, do you really think Michelle's family would have absolute closure and be satisfied (except for her brother of cause)? Don't you think they would want to know why? Given that everyone knows those two love each other like... like damn, then how come the sudden change in affires. Don't you think they would want to know?

Anna Bookowski · Post by **Anna Bookowski** » 09 Jul 2021, 10:26

fridamadrid wrote: ↑08 Jul 2021, 14:49
Anna Bookowski wrote: ↑01 Jul 2021, 09:35 Do you think Gary should plead guilty or not? His father advised him to do so in order to pay respect to Michelle's parents. Mrs. Cohen advised him to plead not guilty as he did not remember his actions. Gary in prison was sure he did not commit the crime, but whether he was in control of his actions or not, he did commit the murder. What do you think?
I think he should plead not guilty because I feel like you should always be true to yourself and to others. Now, to decide whether he did commit the crime or not depends on who is him? is he his mind? is he his body? It gets too deep.
I personally thing he didn't commit the crime, so he should plead not guilty. Also, pleading guilty wouldn't really have any benefits, would it?

Yes, it is quite confusing, isn't it. The thing is, he did commit the crime, although not out of his own will and not even being aware of it. Still, this doesn't change the fact he did it. It gets even more complicated, because it's hard to not agree that he's not exactly guilty of what happened, and at the same time it's obvious the court would never accept this way of defense because it would result in more cases like this in the future. And that would be disastrous.

Anna Bookowski · Post by **Anna Bookowski** » 09 Jul 2021, 10:31

yomide wrote: ↑08 Jul 2021, 14:56
scaryeyes_25 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2021, 01:18 Pleading guilty or not guilty depends on what he wants to give importance. Pleading guilty will give Michelle's family closure. Because physically he did kill Michelle. The not guilty plea and proving that he is not in complete control of his mind and body during that specific time can acquit him. But can it give him closure and peace of mind? Knowing that a version of himself is guilty.
So I think even if it is unfair, it is right for him to plead guilty.
That is a really good perspective, i like it. But if he peads guilty, do you really think Michelle's family would have absolute closure and be satisfied (except for her brother of cause)? Don't you think they would want to know why? Given that everyone knows those two love each other like... like damn, then how come the sudden change in affires. Don't you think they would want to know?

I also think that only to plead guilty would not be enough for Michelle's parents. Of course, they'd like to know the reason, to understand. Because Gary was like a family to them, they knew him and loved him, and they knew he loved their daughter too. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that in a real-life they would not believe the explanation of Gary being overtaken by another self from a different worldline. Even if it would be true, people are not so quick to believe in things that are hardly possible to prove.

yomide · Post by **yomide** » 09 Jul 2021, 12:53

He should, as he did commit the crime consciously or not. But then again, doing so would indicate tha he was very intentional in murder. Him pleading guilty or not all depends on prespective.

Caroline81 · Post by **Caroline81** » 09 Jul 2021, 15:02

I think he should not plead guilty, this may not give mitchelle's family the closure they need but it may be a relif.Yes, it will raise more questions but i believe in the same scenario i would appreciate if Gary denys the crime no matter how henious it is for the sake of finding answers.He did love mitchell so what motive could he have had to kill her?

Vidhi Adhikari · Post by **Vidhi Adhikari** » 09 Jul 2021, 15:40

While I would not want Gary to plead guilty since we all dream about doing things that we'd never actually do, the evidence against him may make matters worse if he does plead guilty. So while morally, I want him to plead not guilty, it might be easier for him to plead guilty and request a plea bargain.

Amy Luman · Post by **Amy Luman** » 09 Jul 2021, 19:15

No, HE didn’t do it. I know that it’s hard to believe and even harder to explain. Taking a plea that is not true is lying.

yomide · Post by **yomide** » 10 Jul 2021, 01:43

Vidhi Adhikari wrote: ↑09 Jul 2021, 15:40 While I would not want Gary to plead guilty since we all dream about doing things that we'd never actually do, the evidence against him may make matters worse if he does plead guilty. So while morally, I want him to plead not guilty, it might be easier for him to plead guilty and request a plea bargain.

True, that is very correct. But he wont be able to live with himself afterwards. He did kill her, physically, but pschologically he didnt. Maybe pleading not guilty and not being able to make a plea bargine is a form of punishing himself.

Anna Bookowski · Post by **Anna Bookowski** » 10 Jul 2021, 06:31

yomide wrote: ↑09 Jul 2021, 12:53 He should, as he did commit the crime consciously or not. But then again, doing so would indicate tha he was very intentional in murder. Him pleading guilty or not all depends on prespective.

It does depend on perspective indeed. Because what makes a person guilty? Committing a crime itself or a conscious decision to do so? Or otherwise, is there a right solution for a situation when one does something bad unintentionally? It's hard to say he's not guilty when he did that, but the standard punishment for murder seems not fair in this case.

Anna Bookowski · Post by **Anna Bookowski** » 10 Jul 2021, 06:35

Caroline81 wrote: ↑09 Jul 2021, 15:02 I think he should not plead guilty, this may not give mitchelle's family the closure they need but it may be a relif.Yes, it will raise more questions but i believe in the same scenario i would appreciate if Gary denys the crime no matter how henious it is for the sake of finding answers.He did love mitchell so what motive could he have had to kill her?

Like someone before noticed, it would probably not be enough for Michelle's family that Gary would just plead guilty with no explanation whatsoever. Because they knew each other well and for a long time. They'd like to understand the reason, and he wouldn't really have one. That's why it's so complicated.