Do you think Gary should plead guilty in court?

Benaron · Post by **Benaron** » 12 Jul 2021, 11:52

No way! The Gary from the other worldline did it; therefore, for the Gary of this wordline to admit that he killed would be as good as lying.

Anna Bookowski · Post by **Anna Bookowski** » 12 Jul 2021, 12:17

yomide wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021, 17:02
Anna Bookowski wrote: ↑10 Jul 2021, 06:42
Amy Luman wrote: ↑09 Jul 2021, 19:15 No, HE didn’t do it. I know that it’s hard to believe and even harder to explain. Taking a plea that is not true is lying.
Well, it's hard to agree with you, because he DID do it. Not consciously, not from his own will, but he did it. The circumstances were completely crazy, but still, it doesn't change the fact of what happened. It's more the matter of asking if you do something unconsciously - does it make you guilty?
Now that would be a very complicated question. From the everyones point of view, Gary is very guilty. I mean there is a video clip for crying out loud. Not being conscious of his action can only legally be written off as insane; Gary isnt insane. Really, i dont think i can be the judge of whether or not Gary should plead guilty.

Yeah, it is pretty messed up, right? I'm also starting to feel more and more confused. One thing for sure: I would not like to be in this judge's shoes! I have no idea how I could make any decision and feel good about it after all. This is just too complicated! And I must admit when I opened that discussion, I did not expect it to be so engaging!

Anna Bookowski · Post by **Anna Bookowski** » 12 Jul 2021, 12:20

Emidio Mikwate wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021, 17:57 Even if he does plead guilty. He will now that he's innocent and the respect he is supposed to pay to the victim parents won't be valued. So I think no. He didn't kill her and there's no need to take responsibility for the crime.

I do partially agree, but not about the part where you say that he didn't kill her. He DID. But I'm also thinking that he should not bear responsibility for it. I imagine that his life after this would never be the same again anyway. I believe his conscience would do the job because after all, he was a good guy.

Anna Bookowski · Post by **Anna Bookowski** » 12 Jul 2021, 12:23

marba wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021, 12:12 That's an excellent question! I personally don't think he should plead guilty. The intent is an important factor in a verdict and he was all but willing to hurt Michelle.
It's interesting though thinking that, given the nature of the Multiverse, he certainly pleaded guilty in another line.

Yes! And following the thought, in some of the worldlines, he was pronounced guilty, and in some not. I'm very curious what would be the legal consequences of these different possible outcomes and what impact the different court decisions would have on the future of legal processes in similar cases.

Anna Bookowski · Post by **Anna Bookowski** » 12 Jul 2021, 12:29

MarianaFigueira wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021, 18:30 Pleading guilty would mean lying in court because he'd be confessing something that he doesn't remember, so that's a bit dishonest. I wonder if pleading guilty would have helped to reduce the sentence in the worldline he went to jail, but what would that have meant to Gary's parents? In the end, I was okay with him pleading not guilty.

I guess pleading not guilty makes more sense. But then there is such clear evidence of him doing it, and we know he killed the girl whether aware of it or not, and this complicates the situation. Of course, we all feel sympathy because we see how unfair this case is. But you're right: what would that have meant for Gary's parents? Or Michelle's? We know how much Gary loved her and even he himself is not able to reason how could this happen. As much as in the book the reasoning might work, in the real world it would stand no chance.

Anna Bookowski · Post by **Anna Bookowski** » 12 Jul 2021, 12:32

Njokime wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021, 01:48 I do not think he should. He was not in control of his mind or body. A version of himself is not guilty. Therefore, it is not fair for him to plead guilty.

I do agree with you but I'm afraid - because of the presence of clear evidence and many witnesses - that this would not work well anyway. In the best case, he would be pronounced mentally ill and placed in a closed mental institution. No judge in the real-life would let him go after seeing the video recording.

Anna Bookowski · Post by **Anna Bookowski** » 12 Jul 2021, 12:35

AbhyarnaAman wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021, 04:30 Gary should plead guilty as in this worldline if anyone could be accounted for Michelle's murder, it was him. Although, I believe his sentence should not be a harsh one as he did not commit the crime consciously.

I think this is a very fair and reasonable opinion. It would be extremely difficult to prove his innocence because of all the evidence. But at the same time, we all have a clear feeling that the whole situation is really unfair. So I also do think he should not get a harsh sentence, taking into account that he must already be going through hell.

Anna Bookowski · Post by **Anna Bookowski** » 12 Jul 2021, 12:40

TheMazeRunner wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021, 08:09 I think Gary should not plead guilty because he doesn't know what is going on. If he remembered he harmed Michelle, who he loved so much, he should then plead guilty. But in this case, he deserves another chance.

Of course, we all feel for Gary. It's easy to imagine how terrified he must feel and that he's going through a real nightmare. But I'm also afraid that his pleading not guilty wouldn't change much. The chance of him being sentenced for murder is rather enormous because of the evidence and witnesses' testimonies. In the best case, he would be announced mentally ill or something like that. Which also wouldn't be quite fair, but probably better than a lifetime in prison...

Mariana Figueira · Post by **Mariana Figueira** » 12 Jul 2021, 13:05

Anna Bookowski wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021, 12:29
MarianaFigueira wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021, 18:30 Pleading guilty would mean lying in court because he'd be confessing something that he doesn't remember, so that's a bit dishonest. I wonder if pleading guilty would have helped to reduce the sentence in the worldline he went to jail, but what would that have meant to Gary's parents? In the end, I was okay with him pleading not guilty.
I guess pleading not guilty makes more sense. But then there is such clear evidence of him doing it, and we know he killed the girl whether aware of it or not, and this complicates the situation. Of course, we all feel sympathy because we see how unfair this case is. But you're right: what would that have meant for Gary's parents? Or Michelle's? We know how much Gary loved her and even he himself is not able to reason how could this happen. As much as in the book the reasoning might work, in the real world it would stand no chance.

I agree. Also, what happened in the other worldline, where he didn't get imprisoned makes no sense in the real world, precisely for the amount of evidence piled up against Gary. But it was a nice touch in the Worldlines universe.

oluwalonimi29 · Post by **oluwalonimi29** » 12 Jul 2021, 14:43

Although it wasn't Gary's intention to commit the crime, but he did. The law might not really believe him because of the video recording. But for his sanity he should plead guilty.
Perhaps, the law might be merciful. But I hope he sincerely forgive himself. This is greater than any plead

yomide · Post by **yomide** » 12 Jul 2021, 14:47

Anna Bookowski wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021, 12:40
TheMazeRunner wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021, 08:09 I think Gary should not plead guilty because he doesn't know what is going on. If he remembered he harmed Michelle, who he loved so much, he should then plead guilty. But in this case, he deserves another chance.
Of course, we all feel for Gary. It's easy to imagine how terrified he must feel and that he's going through a real nightmare. But I'm also afraid that his pleading not guilty wouldn't change much. The chance of him being sentenced for murder is rather enormous because of the evidence and witnesses' testimonies. In the best case, he would be announced mentally ill or something like that. Which also wouldn't be quite fair, but probably better than a lifetime in prison...

Best case? If Gary did plead guilty; he would still get life inprisonment or more than twenty-five years. If he didnt, (like you said) he might be pronunced insane.

Judy_Jemutai7 · Post by **Judy_Jemutai7** » 12 Jul 2021, 19:36

I don't think Gary should plead guilty in court as he committed the murder unconsciously. As a result, the element of intent, which is crucial in the determination of guilt is lacking to complete the offence.

yomide · Post by **yomide** » 12 Jul 2021, 19:52

Anna Bookowski wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021, 12:20
Emidio Mikwate wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021, 17:57 Even if he does plead guilty. He will now that he's innocent and the respect he is supposed to pay to the victim parents won't be valued. So I think no. He didn't kill her and there's no need to take responsibility for the crime.
I do partially agree, but not about the part where you say that he didn't kill her. He DID. But I'm also thinking that he should not bear responsibility for it. I imagine that his life after this would never be the same again anyway. I believe his conscience would do the job because after all, he was a good guy.

In short, no matter what is plea is. His life will never remain the same. Pleading guilty doesn't help his conscience or either of the parents, neither will pleading not guilty ease his traumatized mind. For a fact, no matter the P.O.V., Gary killed her, He 'DID'. So even in the green line where he got of innocent, I'm darn sure he won't be able to come to terms with himself.

yomide · Post by **yomide** » 12 Jul 2021, 19:58

Anna Bookowski wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021, 12:23
marba wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021, 12:12 That's an excellent question! I personally don't think he should plead guilty. The intent is an important factor in a verdict and he was all but willing to hurt Michelle.
It's interesting though thinking that, given the nature of the Multiverse, he certainly pleaded guilty in another line.
Yes! And following the thought, in some of the worldlines, he was pronounced guilty, and in some not. I'm very curious what would be the legal consequences of these different possible outcomes and what impact the different court decisions would have on the future of legal processes in similar cases.

I can't beginning to fathom those impacts. Take the green line for example, he pleaded not guilty and was vindicated. It's not something that happens everyday and given the evidence against him, nothing will remain the same (in terms of legal processes). His case will definitely be used by other criminals to cheat the law.

yomide · Post by **yomide** » 12 Jul 2021, 20:14

Anna Bookowski wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021, 12:35
AbhyarnaAman wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021, 04:30 Gary should plead guilty as in this worldline if anyone could be accounted for Michelle's murder, it was him. Although, I believe his sentence should not be a harsh one as he did not commit the crime consciously.
I think this is a very fair and reasonable opinion. It would be extremely difficult to prove his innocence because of all the evidence. But at the same time, we all have a clear feeling that the whole situation is really unfair. So I also do think he should not get a harsh sentence, taking into account that he must already be going through hell.

Generally, everyone would expect him to plead guilty. With the evidence against him and the number of witness? He stands no chance of vindication. But then again, pleading not guilty is probably the best thing he could do for everybody including the dead, Michelle.