Dostoevsky's "Crime and Punishment"

Himmelslicht · Post by **Himmelslicht** » 05 Jan 2015, 09:49

PashaRu wrote:
Himmelslicht wrote:
How long did it take you to learn a language with such different characters?
I saw an infographic the other day that it takes approximately 88 weeks to learn a language that is completely different from Latin characters (Japanese, Hebrew, Arabic, etc).
I feel like I'm still learning. The Russian alphabet is actually fairly easy to learn, and Russian isn't terribly difficult to read because it's almost completely phonetic. Grammar is very difficult. There are three genders and six cases in Russian, and since it's an inflected language, nouns, verbs, adjectives, deverbals, participles, etc. all change depending on their usage.

I think 88 weeks is extremely conservative. I teach English as a second (foreign) language. I've taught students of many different languages, and have never known one who "learned" English in that period of time. It's 3-5 years before a native English speaker can be conversant in Russian, and I think the same is true for other languages like Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, etc. Of course, that will vary from person to person.

I say 88 weeks 24/7, not only a few hours a day. Here's the link.

Russian, grammar-wise sounds a little like German. I learned some basics in 2014 and they really give a headache.

PashaRu · Post by **PashaRu** » 05 Jan 2015, 22:56

I checked out the site. The estimates are based on about 25 "class hours" per week. There are so many variables, though, not the least of which is the fact that "each learner is different." Also, what kind of instruction is provided in the class? Which methods are used? How interactive is it? How many students, and how much does each student get to participate? In my experience, these are all important factors. The difficulty levels are similar to others I've seen, including the Cambridge scale.

Oops... we got a little off topic, didn't we???

Himmelslicht · Post by **Himmelslicht** » 06 Jan 2015, 04:15

Yeah we did

But of course that all statistics and infographics tend to be very general, so it's not something we should take much into consideration, since everyone is different.

KateCrRdr · Post by **KateCrRdr** » 06 Mar 2015, 08:06

The brilliant novel, the main theme is crime and punishment, sacrifice and love, freedom and pride of man.

Wounderlandvisitor · Post by **Wounderlandvisitor** » 07 May 2015, 03:21

I completely agree, this book was a struggle at first but is well worth the time. After reading Crime and Punishment, I understand how it stands the test of time. This book is a thought provoking read, that is still relevant today. I only wish more teens would take the time to read this great master piece.

boaz6676 · Post by **boaz6676** » 13 May 2015, 00:35

Crime and Punishment is one of my all time favorite books. Like many others here, when I began reading I found it tedious, slow, and near impossible to keep the characters/names straight. However, without realizing it, I went from not wanting to continue reading to refusing to put it down even to sleep. Without a doubt, it is one of the denser books I have found myself reading, but the density was entirely necessary. The depth of the psychology of the characters along with their development and connection to the reader would have been impossible without this denseness. My only regret is not being able to read the book in the original Russian as clearly language was huge to elements of the book. However, even without that benefit, Crime and Punishment is beyond a top notch piece of literature.

Narcissa13 · Post by **Narcissa13** » 31 May 2015, 23:45

I liked this book, but to be quite honest I'm not sure why. There where a couple of characters I identified strongly with, but I admit I was somewhat disenchanted with Raskolnikov. My mother has a degree in Russian Language and Literature and and when I discussed Crime and Punishment with her I found we had two different ways of looking at the novel. According to her most characters in the works of Tolstoy and Dostoevsky are symbolic of philosophical concepts prevalent at the time the novels were written. I had a difficult time thinking in this mind frame. I tend to view characters in stories as actual people and I judge their actions in much the same way I would the people I see and interact with in real life. So I had a very hard time seeing Raskolnikov as the embodiment of man's attempt to replace morality with reason and logic. I saw him as an arrogant and delusional college aged guy who carries out the clumsiest assassination ever and then doesn't get caught because of sheer chance, spends a great deal of time losing his marbles in sheer terror and then ends up turning himself into the police because the fear of getting caught finally gets to him in the end. Then in prison in Siberia, his girlfriend Sonya (supposedly something of a Christ-figure) by being a decent person around him manages to screw his head on straight and he finds redemption.

I realize many people may find this assessment of the novel to be unusual or even offensive and I don't wish to offend anyone. I truly do like this book (I even added it to my personal library), I just also tend to view things through a very practical 21st Century lens.

kstockard · Post by **kstockard** » 09 Jun 2015, 13:28

I loved reading Crime and Punishment in school. Once you get past the first 100 or so pages, the book is extremely hard to put down. The philosophy and the religious influences are incredibly interesting to read about, but my favorite thing to analyze is Dostoevsky's second literary period and Crime and Punishment. Dostoevsky didn't write this book until after he had spent time in prison and a Siberian labor camp. I just find this book to be a fascinating look into the difference between pre-prison writing and post-prison writing.

I am pleased that this book is still taught in some schools. The literary value gained from Dostoevsky's writing is insurmountable.

aybige · Post by **aybige** » 08 Oct 2015, 07:43

This is one of my favourite books! I agree with the first post. Raskolnikow was a murderer but he actually repented crime he made. I like psychological threads in novels.

stanley · Post by **stanley** » 16 Nov 2015, 22:43

DATo wrote:I am going to offer a little anecdote that some of you might find interesting. I will be mindful not to include direct spoilers for the sake of those who have not yet read the book but I am sure that those of you who are familiar with the story will know what I am talking about.

I had been reading this book and had finally come to the "moment of decision" and its immediate aftermath. That night I dreamed I had murdered someone for no apparent reason. In the dream I immediately felt the fear of discovery - the paranoia that follows in the footsteps of he who commits a great and heinous crime which is contrary to his true nature. I berated myself for doing something so stupid and yet so profound. It was perhaps the most psychologically realistic dream of my life.

When an author like Dostoyevsky can pen a novel which is so well articulated that the story insinuates itself into one's own subconscious to the extent that the actual feelings of a character are replayed in dreams and experienced with such vicarious realism that the reader wakes in a cold sweat, it is then then that you know that you have been reading the work of a true literary genius.

Very interesting experience. I agree that Dostoyevsky has to be a genius,(maybe a tortured genius,) to so powerfully evoke what must be a human universal: the fear of irredeemable guilt and alienation from the moral community.It's interesting that Raskolnikov suffers even as he anticipates the crime that will set him apart. On the one hand he struggles to justify murder by convincing himself that the ends justify the means and that one who has the courage to place himself above the law for a good that outweighs the evil of such a crime can, indeed, exist outside the moral community. On the other hand, Raskolnikov, cannot proceed with the confidence and resolve of one who is truly above the law.It's most peculiar that we have here a basically decent man with generous tendencies in the clutches of an obsessive idea that seems almost to compel him against his will. A lesser writer, I think, would be hard pressed to make the situation credible.
And then comes, for me, the niftiest part of the narrative, engaging for its awful symmetry: Raskolnikov the wannabe superman after he commits (and bungles terribly ) a horrible murder, becomes the almost pathetic picture of a guilty, terrified little man. In the presence of the wily inspector it's all that R. can do to repress the confession that threatens to leap unbidden to his tongue. It is an impulse as strong as the one that moved him to commit the crime in the first place. At no other point did I so strongly identify with R.
It's tempting to be satisfied with obvious messages: No one no matter however privileged b y some imagined moral overview, "the big picture" that indicates the "greater good, is exempt from the law. Step across the line at peril of becoming a monster banished to the outer darkness. Redemption, if possible, even, can come only at the cost of great suffering, not only one's own but also, perhaps, that of innocent others. Dostoyevsky produces these truisms, of course, but he finds more. How interesting, for example, that the inspector, seeker of truth, the servant of the moral law, is somehow a sinister figure. He does, indeed enjoy, watching Raskolnikov squirm, savors it so much that this reader, at least, cannot help, hopeless as it is, root for the murderer to somehow elude him. At the same time, this reader does very much relish the the excruciating game of cat and mouse and from the safety of his chair becomes both the predator and the prey. Yeah, it takes a genius like Dostoyevsky, artist and master psychologist, to pull off such profound tricks as these.

Lxpoetess · Post by **Lxpoetess** » 02 Dec 2015, 13:26

I love this book. I will never forget the part where he discusses the evils of efficient death as seen in the guillotine because it robs a man of hope in his last moments. It is something that has stuck with me throughout the years as a very true assessment of the ills of capital punishment.

KateNox · Post by **KateNox** » 10 Jan 2016, 06:14

One of my absolute favorites! This is the book that got me into the writing in the first place. I was hooked from the beginning, although many people say it's a slow start for them, and I read this beast in one day. I simply couldn't put it down. Dostoevsky is THE writer to read in order to learn more about humility, life, religion, faith and above all, how to be a human.

Taylor Razzani · Post by **Taylor Razzani** » 17 Jan 2016, 19:45

One of my all time favorite classics, I haven't read it in so long unfortunately. I just had to comment because, reading through the other comments, it brought to mind how the book made me feel near the end. I remember it left me feeling extremely paranoid, maybe even a little crazy minded. I was hooked on Dostoevsky ever since. His works may be a little dry at times, but to be able to draw the reader in far enough to make them question their sanity is a gift.

Riesgomel · Post by **Riesgomel** » 02 Feb 2016, 18:59

This is an excellent read and a big old favourite of mine! I read it in high school and I remember being embarrassed to tell anyone I liked it. I was one of just a few I think. My daughter is just studying Russian history. I should get her to read this!