Global question about Title and Subtitle

alterstories · Post by **alterstories** » 06 Jan 2016, 15:52

I am a dutch wannabe fantasy writer and have still a lot to learn

my problem is that I find it hard to come up with a subtitle that gives the title more value.

Example: Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
Does the Sorcerer's Stone add more value to the Title "Harry Potter"? It looks nice, but I don`t think so.

My question is, when do you decide to add a subtitle to the title of your book / story?

moderntimes · Post by **moderntimes** » 08 Jan 2016, 19:53

That's not a subtitle. It's part of the whole title, "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" is a full title. All the titles are "Harry Potter and..." so readers can identify the series easily.

A genuine subtitle is for example, Cormac McCarthy's stunning novel:

Blood Meridian
Or the Evening Redness in the West

In this, "Evening etc" is the subtitle.

There's no "rule" for using a subtitle. You can use one if you wish, which adds a certain extra "flavor" to the title, as with Blood Meridian.

-- 08 Jan 2016, 19:58 --

And alter, let me recommend something which I usually do for other new writers here... Never say that you're a "wannabe" or anything like this. Never say to yourself "I want to write fantasy some day..." because you're building a mental wall which is hard to get over.

Instead, say "I AM a fantasy writer" (but I'm just getting started). Always consider yourself as a writer NOW, even if your output is not much yet.

I am an example. I kept telling myself "I would like to write a mystery novel..." but it wasn't until I said "I'm writing a mystery novel now" that I really started. Now I've got 3 complete private detective books published and I'm working on the 4th.

And good luck! You'll find plenty of help in this forum.

alterstories · Post by **alterstories** » 09 Jan 2016, 04:40

Moderntimes, thank you very much for your detailed explanation and all your extra advice.
You have answered my question.

DATo · Post by **DATo** » 09 Jan 2016, 04:58

alterstories - First of all, welcome to the website!

I think moderntimes pretty much summed it up but I will only add that in the case of Rowling's book there were many sequels thus perhaps owing to her use of an extension in the title. In each iteration Rowling mentions something pertaining to the thrust of the plot in each book; therefore, and the Sorcerer's Stone. By employing a subtitle the author has taken any "first glance" confusion away from the casual browser ...i.e. this will be a Harry Potter book ... the subtitle serves to convey to the browser that this is the 2nd, 3rd, 4th ect installment to the series. She could just as easily said "Book II", "Book III", "Book IV" ect. but, as stated above, the subtitle describes the pertinent plot of the book in question. If you are writing a stand alone novel I would think a subtitle would be irrelevant. Having also read McCarthy's Blood Meridian aware that it was not followed by a sequel I have often wondered why he chose to supplement the title with the subtitle, or The Evening Redness In The West.

Also, I agree with moderntimes when he says that you should consider yourself a writer NOW and tell yourself as much. For instance, each day I tell myself that I am KIng Of The Universe Now ... but since the universe tends to treat me in a manner similar to the manner in which a baby treats a diaper I feel that I have not yet achieved my goal.

KS Crooks · Post by **KS Crooks** » 09 Jan 2016, 08:30

Another method sometimes used is what Lee Child does for his Reacher novels. He has a title such as "The Hard Way" then either above or below the title he puts "A Jack Reacher Novel/thiller" to easily identify the character/series.

moderntimes · Post by **moderntimes** » 09 Jan 2016, 11:55

Regarding Cormac McCarthy's subtitle, his entire book is written in a semi-archaic, almost biblical style, with chapters beginning with subtitled sections about what's to come in each chapter. This is a deliberate tossback to that Victorian style of the novel.

"Blood Meridian" has been described as a Western adventure stimulated by Hieronymus Bosch. Those who enjoy dark and desperate thrillers will like the novel. It's nightmarish, maybe the most horrific American modern novel. What makes it so terrifying is that there is no "magic" or supernatural horror -- it's all real. It tells the story of a band of murderous scalphunters who raid down through the 1840s Texas and Mexican area. So it's a Western but without heroes and absolutely without white hat good guys. And in the novel, there's one character, "The Judge" who is perhaps the most frightening villain ever. Nasty fantasy sorcerers don't hold a candle to him.

I'm a grown man who's been a horror and suspense fan all his life, and I've written some fairly scary horror stories myself. But "Blood Meridian" gave me actual nightmares.

What makes the book so scary is the style of the narrative. It's written in fairly high level English, very literate, and as I said, with almost biblical tones. Which adds to the contrast when such frightening and violent scenes are depicted in this lyrical manner.

Anyone, anyone who thinks that the Harry Potter bad sorcerer is scary has yet to meet The Judge.

And DAT, don't be concerned. I've got 2 published novels (where the publisher pays me, not the other way around, professionally published, not self or subsidy published), a 3rd soon to be released, and the universe hasn't yet noticed me either, ha ha.

My point is this: Telling yourself that "I want to be a writer" is self-defeating, as you can understand. It erects a barrier. When in fact, nobody has to give you permission to be a writer. So proclaim yourself a writer, and then get started writing. Keep pushing yourself.

Let's face it -- the shoemaker elves are on strike! They won't finish that book for you. Or they want too much money. A couple months ago I had a blank page (blank screen, actually) and now I've got about 20,000 words into my new novel, the 4th. My recommendation to all new writers is to refuse to think that they're a nobody. All nobody writers became a somebody writer at some point. Not all make it but when you receive your first royalty check, even if it's $39.43, it is a victory.

alterstories · Post by **alterstories** » 09 Jan 2016, 15:55

Thank you all for your insight, it was very helpful. I think I have a good idea when to use a subtitle now.
I am also a Horror / thriller fan and moderntimes made me curious about Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian and will buy this book next week.

Will leave a comment somewhere on this forum about this book