Starting a Novel

Booky_BettyC · Post by **Booky_BettyC** » 10 Apr 2016, 11:42

You're style of writing is you're style of writing. Reading a book isn't always about education. It's about enjoyment. I myself do not hang around with people that can't speak appropriately. I know a lot of educated people and just because we know big fancy words does not mean we have to use them in everyday conversation. That being said, I don't have to hang around people or read books that are thesaurus worthy just because some people may take reading to a whole other level and use words such as "dumb" and phrases like "Family Feud audience". For the record, I wasn't saying you should do anything with your writing. I was replying back to the comment the donaldzlotnik wrote on what I like to see in the first bit of a book. As for authors I like many, from YA authors like Kelly Armstrong to American Adventure Novelist Clive Cussler. Anyway, good job on your books and lighten up a bit?? Just because someone posts what they like in a book, does not mean they are attacking you.

moderntimes · Post by **moderntimes** » 10 Apr 2016, 13:02

I know it wasn't an attack. I just maintain that my writing is for a standard, mostly college educated audience, and because I think a certain word is exactly the right one (I labored hard and long over that novel) and that word may be out of the 5th grade vocabulary, I'm not going to use a lesser word just so I can encompass a less educated readership.

Most folks think that my books read easily and are very well paced, and there's no lecturing or ranting at all. They are a straightforward, modern American crime series and because I review mystery novels for a website, have read many other books, and mine are well within that level of literary readership. I'm not writing to show off my vocabulary -- I'm writing to sell.

And your own novels may be deliberately pitched toward, perhaps, a YA audience, which is fine. Each to one's own.

btw, in the first sentence, it should be "your" not "you're" -- hee hee

Aditi_Bose · Post by **Aditi_Bose** » 12 Apr 2016, 00:23

Now that my third book is ready to hit the market soon, I know exactly how tough the starting is. Every time I have the entire story in the head, but the moment I get down to writing, it takes ages before I can pen down the first paragraph. It is a breeze once that is done!

moderntimes · Post by **moderntimes** » 12 Apr 2016, 10:30

I understand totally, Aditi.

When I first decided to write a private detective short story, I'd persuaded myself that there was no way that I could write an entire novel. But as the story grew and grew, I soon realized that I was actually aiming for a novel length piece.

Now I've got 3 published and I'm working on the 4th, plus another supernatural horror novel with a totally separate "existence".

For those who are having trouble getting started, try this -- it worked for me:

Instead of starting "Chapter 1 -- I am born." and if you find it hard to get started with that, just take the Monty Python advice and "skip ahead, brother" -- write a separate chapter which interests you, some fun chapter which you've got in mind as part of the novel's story. It could end up as chapter 14 or chapter 34 and that doesn't matter. It could be a romantic encounter or a fight scene or a clue discovery scene, and that doesn't matter either.

What DOES matter is that this particular event or scene is one which you visualize as being in your novel. Just write it and save it as "chapter love-scene" or "chapter car-chase". Then, write another totally different chapter which depicts another scene in your mind. After you write 3 or 4 of these pivotal or interesting chapters, this will have broken the ice and you should be able to go back and write the intervening chapters and begin to build the novel.

aparsons · Post by **aparsons** » 12 Apr 2016, 17:09

I like your advice to start with what is interesting, and not from the very beginning. Am I correct in saying that in the professional editing process, they might change things around anyway? My novel is literally based on a dream I had about seven years ago, I finally wrote it down, and started spinning this huge story around this one scene I remember. I tried to start from the beginning once I got my dream scene down, but I kept adding more. I'll carry around a notebook with me to classes and D&D in case I think of something fun or interesting, or want to sketch a scene, and I have the notebook right there for when I don't have my computer.

moderntimes · Post by **moderntimes** » 12 Apr 2016, 19:08

No editors or publisher will change around what you've written. If they didn't like it, they wouldn't have offered you a publishing contract in the first place. They would have just said TBNT -- thanks but no thanks.

What a publisher will do is, first of all, find all typos, grammatical errors, other pure mechanical mistakes. Amazingly, for my new novel, zero errors were found. This either means that I presented an error-free final version or both the editors and I missed things. I of course prefer to think the former, ha ha.

The editors will also look for actionable things -- if for example your characters eat at McDonald's and then get food poisoning. Legal liability isn't gonna be allowed.

They will then make suggestions for style changes. These won't be substantial -- as I said, if your book wasn't good enough to publish in the first place, they would have simply refused it. As the author, you're free to accept or refuse these changes, but what I've found is that usually the editors are making very good recommendations for change.

As for hiring a professional editing service, where you pay them (as opposed to selling your book to a legit publisher who picks up the tab 100% and pays you royalties), a paid editing service will make ZERO changes without your approval.

You can pay them for a copy and line edit alone, or you can pay them for a general edit also. Here are the 3 basic types of professional edit:

1. Copy edit: Mechanical errors, typos, spelling, and continuity errors (someone with red hair changes to blonde, etc), and also legal problems with quoting copyright material.
2. Line edit: Reviews content for quality of writing, looks for overused words or phrases, style that can be improved, etc.
3. General edit: Top of the line review of the entire content for style and rhythm, how the story can be improved, etc.

If you pick up the tab, you can select which levels of edit to be performed. You can just choose a mechanical error edit, which is a copy edit, or add a line edit, or a general edit too. Each will cost more, of course.

And if you're gonna submit your book for pro editing services, become acquainted with the 3 terms above. They are what the "trade" uses and so you need to refer to these when paying someone, with a clear definition between you both before they proceed.

Regardless of whether you sell your book to a legit mainstream publisher as I did, where they do all the work and pay me, or whether you pay for an editing service, nobody will force you to make any changes. The ONLY thing which a pro publisher will insist upon is that all mechanical error and legal issues be fixed. You can understand why, as badly edited books makes the publisher look incompetent, and legal forays can end up in court.

Starting from what you find interesting is just one way to break the barrier with writer's block. Another way is to again, skip forward in your book. Let's say you're chugging along, and making decent progress, having finished at least the first drafts of chapters 1 thru 9, but you get stuck on a plot tweak or conversation or whatever in chapter 10. If a solution doesn't come easily, don't get locked up and sweat it. Instead, just put it aside for a bit and go forward, maybe with chapter 11 thru 14, and pretty soon, the very process of writing will open the brain cells and you'll be able to go back and resolve the sticking point in chapter 10.

My principal point is that you learn to write, that you proceed, by keeping on writing! The very act of writing stimulates better writing.

Booky_BettyC · Post by **Booky_BettyC** » 13 Apr 2016, 21:05

Very good information Moderntimes! Thanks! I myself have been thinking for a couple of yrs on writing a book. Totally lost on where to start though. The topic I will be writing about is on something quite personal and the struggles along the way with a bit of humor so it's not just a woe is me, which im not wanting it to be. More so people can relate and possibly find humor in there own battles to help them adjust to a new life forced on them. The one thing I'm struggling with is the different points/chapters. A lot of situations snowball into others. I'm having trouble not crossing the line so I don't become repetitive. I'm also quite intimidated with the whole process.

moderntimes · Post by **moderntimes** » 14 Apr 2016, 16:15

Well, just realize that the word "novel" means fiction. You're apparently writing a memoir or autobio. Which is fine, but a very different task, as a personal exegesis can be quite difficult to work on, as it involves deeply personal things.

aparsons · Post by **aparsons** » 19 Apr 2016, 17:12

Your info is super helpful @moderntimes, as always. I guess I always assumed that editors would either cut out parts they didn't like, or change things around, but I suppose I was giving them too much credit, or power. I have found typos in published books, but I'm assuming that is pretty rare.

moderntimes · Post by **moderntimes** » 19 Apr 2016, 18:29

Thanks.

It's very rare for an editor to excise parts of a book. As I said, if they didn't like the book in the first place, they wouldn't have bought it. Realize that a publisher spends, at the minimum, hundreds of bucks getting a book into print, lots more if they're a major publisher with a big advertising budget. But even a small publisher goes into the hole for a book before they begin to earn the investment back via royalties and sales.

And for each book picked up, there are maybe 50 - 100 which get skipped. So no publisher is gonna take a chance on a badly written book. They've got more well written books to choose from, so they won't devote money and hours to altering a book that's only halfway acceptable. They will make minor recommendations and of course fix all mechanical errors.

This is why I urge new writers to ensure that their final submission manuscripts are spotless, with zero typos or other errors. And then, of course, a good story is mandatory. I know that many here take the self publishing route, which is fine. But I emphasize that it's still better to write and edit and proofread the book with a professional attitude, as if the chief editor of Random House were gonna be evaluating it. That habit of professionalism will be beneficial, I guarantee.

In all of my books, the editors made typo corrections and a few minor grammatical changes, but very few, in that my manuscript submissions were very clean. They recommended a few stylistic changes too, and I quickly realize that the bulk of these suggestions were good ones, made the narrative flow better, and so on. So I generally accepted about 2/3 of the suggestions, kept the other 1/3 as I'd written originally.

About which I received zero pushy comments. They went with my final evaluation and the books went to print.

Let me caution that there ARE some scam publishers who rake the poor naive author over the coals, and charge for numerous rewrites and repeated editing passes. PLEASE do yourself a favor and check the website "Preditors and Editors" to verify that the publisher is a legit one, and not a scam.

For fun, I keep a "corrected" version of the first 2 chapters of my new now-published novel, when I accidentally sent the book to a cheat house -- scam publishers often adopt names similar to legit places -- and they said my book needed "extensive" editing which of course, for a fee, they'd find a good editor to fix. And to prove how "bad" my book was, they sent me an edited version, where the idiot marked tons of perfectly good English as unacceptable and especially dissed my use of adverbs, for some reason. Duh.

Remember, a legit publisher will not charge you one red cent, ever, unless you specifically want something special, such as paying extra for your book to be bound hardcover instead of the more common "trade paperback" or you want a special cover artist or whatever. But for normal publishing, not a penny.

aparsons · Post by **aparsons** » 26 Apr 2016, 16:41

That's funny how the editing company tried to "fix" your book. Did you send them a copy of the published book? I'm lucky my husband is a grammar nerd and is willing to proof-read my manuscript for any errors once I'm done with it.

moderntimes · Post by **moderntimes** » 27 Apr 2016, 09:29

No, never considered sending the book to them. Pearls before swine for sure, and of equally zero value.

Thankfully, my new novel is error free. I re-read the print version carefully as soon as I received it, and couldn't find a single mechanical error.

prospero1501 · Post by **prospero1501** » 02 May 2016, 16:49

A good novel begins with a good idea, but it is well-known that the first sentence has to be monumental to grab a reader's attention. I recommend beginning with an action sequence, but there are many ways to accomplish a great hook. Your 'bait' has to be so tantalizing from the first bite, that the reader won't want to stop reading. Before they know it, they've finished the whole first chapter, hungry for more.

Grant Costello · Post by **Grant Costello** » 02 May 2016, 18:00

I've read too many novels that try to cram too much back story, setting, and character description in the first few pages. New writers fall into this trap as well.

I like to write my stories with a diluted and easy to swallow beginning, and then introduce the setting, character, and back story in increments as the plot unfolds.